Draughts program

Discussion about development of draughts in the time of computer and Internet.
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Krzysztof Grzelak
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Draughts program

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Mon Feb 22, 2021 08:55

I have a question. Is there any draugts program that can be played with a human. I will write what it is about. I would like to play a game with a time of 15 minutes + 10 seconds, without the number of moves in the game. I remind you that for a human is not important how much the program will perform movements during the game. For a human, what counts is to win, lose or draw.

Ed Gilbert
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Re: Draughts program

Post by Ed Gilbert » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:37

Yes you can play a game at 15 minutes + 10 seconds increment without a moves limit. But that is not what you asked me yesterday. You asked if kingsrow can play a game with 2 time controls: 15 minutes + 10 seconds, and then 5 minutes + 3 seconds. If you have 2 time controls, then there must at least be a move limit on the first control, otherwise there is no way to know when to switch from the first control to the second.

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Re: Draughts program

Post by Ed Gilbert » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:59

Krzysztof, you also mentioned that this is for an exhibition match against a human player. Perhaps you misunderstood what they proposed. It might instead have been -- you play a bunch of games at 15 min + 10 seconds, and if the match is tied after those games, then you play a second round of games at 5 min + 3 seconds. That would make more sense. But there is still a problem. You will be using a real chess clock, and it will take you some time to enter the opponent's move into kingsrow. I think you normally allow 6 seconds per move for this. But this overhead is time taken off the program's clock at each move. If the time control increment is less than the overhead time that it takes for you to manually make each move in the program, then the program will eventually lose on time. The human opponent only has to move quickly and make safe drawing moves, and then he will win when the program's clock is used up by the manual overhead.

If you are going to have a time control against a human player, and without a limit on the number of moves, then the increment has to be longer than the overhead time that it takes you to make each move on the computer.

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: Draughts program

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Mon Feb 22, 2021 13:12

Ed Gilbert wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:37
Yes you can play a game at 15 minutes + 10 seconds increment without a moves limit. But that is not what you asked me yesterday. You asked if kingsrow can play a game with 2 time controls: 15 minutes + 10 seconds, and then 5 minutes + 3 seconds. If you have 2 time controls, then there must at least be a move limit on the first control, otherwise there is no way to know when to switch from the first control to the second.
You got me very wrong. How do I make Kingsrow in time for a game 15 minutes + 10 seconds increment without a moves limit.

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Re: Draughts program

Post by Ed Gilbert » Mon Feb 22, 2021 13:16

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 13:12
You got me very wrong. How do I make Kingsrow in time for a game 15 minutes + 10 seconds increment without a moves limit.
Go to the Game Time dialog. Select "increment mode". Set the Initial time to 900 seconds. Set the Increment to 10 seconds.

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: Draughts program

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Mon Feb 22, 2021 13:17

Ed Gilbert wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:59
Krzysztof, you also mentioned that this is for an exhibition match against a human player. Perhaps you misunderstood what they proposed. It might instead have been -- you play a bunch of games at 15 min + 10 seconds, and if the match is tied after those games, then you play a second round of games at 5 min + 3 seconds. That would make more sense. But there is still a problem. You will be using a real chess clock, and it will take you some time to enter the opponent's move into kingsrow. I think you normally allow 6 seconds per move for this. But this overhead is time taken off the program's clock at each move. If the time control increment is less than the overhead time that it takes for you to manually make each move in the program, then the program will eventually lose on time. The human opponent only has to move quickly and make safe drawing moves, and then he will win when the program's clock is used up by the manual overhead.

If you are going to have a time control against a human player, and without a limit on the number of moves, then the increment has to be longer than the overhead time that it takes you to make each move on the computer.
This is what Ed is all about. How to set times for these two games - 15 min + 10 seconds and 5 min + 3 seconds.

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Re: Draughts program

Post by Ed Gilbert » Mon Feb 22, 2021 13:22

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 13:17
This is what Ed is all about. How to set times for these two games - 15 min + 10 seconds and 5 min + 3 seconds.
Tell them you cannot use 5 min + 3 seconds because the increment is too small, it takes you longer than 3 seconds to make the moves in the program. Tell them they can make it 1 minute + 10 seconds.

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Re: Draughts program

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Mon Feb 22, 2021 13:32

Ed Gilbert wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 13:22
Tell them you cannot use 5 min + 3 seconds because the increment is too small, it takes you longer than 3 seconds to make the moves in the program. Tell them they can make it 1 minute + 10 seconds.
I did not understand you a bit and I do not know if I understand you well. Time 5 min + 3 seconds . Set the Initial time to 60 seconds. Set the Increment to 10 seconds. Did I understand correctly Ed.

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Re: Draughts program

Post by Ed Gilbert » Mon Feb 22, 2021 13:39

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 13:32
I did not understand you a bit and I do not know if I understand you well. Time 5 min + 3 seconds . Set the Initial time to 60 seconds. Set the Increment to 10 seconds. Did I understand correctly Ed.
Tell them that you cannot use 3 seconds as an increment, because it takes you longer than 3 seconds to manually make the moves in the program.

Suggest to them that instead of 5 min + 3 seconds, use a smaller initial time like 1 minute, but a larger increment, like 8 or 10 seconds.

You cannot use 3 seconds for the increment in a game against a human. It has to be at least 8 seconds.

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Re: Draughts program

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Mon Feb 22, 2021 13:46

What would you say if there was time 5 min + 10 seconds - then it would be okay. I understand if the time was 5 minutes + 10 seconds. Then I can set the program like this - Set the Initial time to 300 seconds. Set the Increment to 10 seconds. Whether this way all right Ed.

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