Wales

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A.Presman
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Real name: Alexander Presman
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Wales

Post by A.Presman » Fri May 30, 2003 13:34

In the Forum there are different opinions about the matter does or doesn't Wales right to be independent member of the FMJD.
Same with England. Or schould it be the only one Britisch federation for the whole UK?

Let's discuss. Normally it should be the separated topic not in the "Crisis in FMJD" forum. But somehow this question was involved in the conflict.
So let's do it here.
Last edited by A.Presman on Fri May 30, 2003 21:35, edited 1 time in total.

s.iacono

Post by s.iacono » Fri May 30, 2003 13:36

Mr. Levy give the example of football and chess, but in each sport England, Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland are separate country: I think that there isn't a sport where there is a team named "United Kingdom".

Personally I can't understand it, but it's the reality, so I say: "Welcome to Wales in FMJD"!

$

Stefano Iacono

alkand

Post by alkand » Fri May 30, 2003 17:32

Let's start from "other side". I didn't find any information about Wales checkers federations, checkers tournaments played there. And what about players from there? I think Mr. Levy is checkers players and he is living in this this country? Same I can tell about Scotland. And everybody can find easy information about federations, tournaments and players from England and N.Ireland. So, I think that it was simple fake to receive more votes. Why don't invite in FMJD penguins from Arctic Circle and Antarctica next time?

So I say: "Welcome to EVERYBODY in FMJD"!

George Miller CDC

Wales

Post by George Miller CDC » Fri May 30, 2003 17:48

Firstly the United Kingdom & Northern Ireland is the full name to the "country". The UK represents three countries namely England, Scotland and Wales. England and Scotland have their own Parliaments and Wales has its Assembly.

As to Wales' Checkers Activities
Recent activities: There are regular internal tournaments - probably more than in Scotland or England. The National tournament is played each year (the English & Scottish atre biannual). It last hosted the British Open in Cardiff in 1994. William Edwards played a match with Ron King for the World Championship. It runs the Premier Postal Checkers event in Europe. Its team regularly contests the Home International Championships.

A domain for "Cymdeithas Draffts Cymru" has been set up. It is in its infancy, but is no worse than other Checkers sites.

http:\\www.draffts.com

We are not a rich Federation, FMJD membership is a substantial cost for us - which we have paid in advance in good faith.

The Welsh have a history older than the FMJD and it would be natural to show us the same respect we have for other, younger draughts nations.

A.Presman
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Post by A.Presman » Fri May 30, 2003 19:25

Aneurin M.Jones (Welsh artist ) "Draffts"
Image

Source

A.Presman
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Post by A.Presman » Fri May 30, 2003 20:37

George,
There is no doubt that
a) there are draughts players in Wales;
b) all draughts players should join in organization;
c) their organization should be represented in ( the checkers section of ) the FMJD;
d) FMJD should help to the checkers section in better organisation as there is huge potencial for draughts promotion

The questions are different:
- should Wales be accepted as an independent member of the FMJD or only as a part inside of joined British federation?
- if yes - should it get immediately voting right?
- was all the procedure around affiliation and voting of (on behalf of) Wales correct and legitime?

And last but not least - not juridical but ethical - is it alright that Mr. Levy with two disputable votes without knowledge of any ins and outs should decide in the critical moment which way FMJD will go coming 4(!) years?

George Miller CDC

Post by George Miller CDC » Mon Jun 02, 2003 23:44

I believe it was the GA decision to admit Wales; a similar situation as the position in Chess and Football.

It is an FMJD decision on which Wales had no part other than to request membership - we are pleased to part of the World body for Draughts.

Regarding the part Mr David Levy played at the meeting. He was given a free hand by the English & Welsh Associations. We know little of the FMJD that is true - but surely all votes should be a matter of conscience - and David has an experience of large organisations at least the equal of anyone at the General Assembly. I believe he acted correctly and in the best interests of the FMJD and its members.

I see that there shall be an extraordinary GA in the summer - this is surely the place to decide the future of the FMJD. From what I have read of the Sunday session, the Russo-Brazilian group acted to take advantage of the absence of delegates on the second day. I regard this underhanded and they will have to go some way in regaining my trust and the trust of others who believe in true democracy.

In any event I think they have done much unnecessary damage to the FMJD - caused mainly by an elite group wanting more money for themselves. How petty!

George

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Jun 03, 2003 00:10

George Miller CDC wrote: From what I have read of the Sunday session, the Russo-Brazilian group acted to take advantage of the absence of delegates on the second day.
DelegateS?

Mr. David Levy is just one person.
(Representing 1 country and 2 members (with totally 6 votes))

Who just happened to be in the neighbourhood on Saterday.
In his words:
"You ask why I left the meeting after the election and whether I was interested only in the election. In fact the election was not the reason why I was present. I came to Zwartsluis only to collaborate with Mr Walker in order to present the by-laws of the Checkers section, which I helped to create. Normally someone else would have come from England but for different reasons the usual people were not available on that day. If it had not been for the presentation of these by-laws and the other related proposals by England and the USA regarding the Checkers section, I would not have been in Zwartsluis at all. So my interest in attending the meeting was not the election. It just happens that the election took place while I was there. I had always intended to return to England on the evening of the 17th. " (Posted: Sat May 24, 2003 19:41 Post subject: Crisis in FMJD)

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Jun 03, 2003 09:43

Hello ALL!

George Miller CDC wrote:

"... others who believe in true democracy."

Dear George,

are you really sure, that's democracy, whan one person has operated with 6 (!!!) votes?

BR, Alkand.

George Miller CDC

Post by George Miller CDC » Tue Jun 03, 2003 20:14

I appreciate that these postings are in English and that I have an advantage in that I can read and understand them in my native tongue. Perhaps those who pick up upon one liners in my posts would do themselves a service and read the whole thread.

"Delegates" David Levy and the Estonian delegate left on Saturday that makes two - plural.

6 votes - yes - every nation now has 6 votes = democracy.

Next [img]images/smilies/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Guest

Post by Guest » Thu Jun 05, 2003 21:47

George Miller CDC wrote:I appreciate that these postings are in English and that I have an advantage in that I can read and understand them in my native tongue.
I thought Welsh is your native tongue... [img]images/smilies/icon_eek.gif[/img]

George Miller CDC

Post by George Miller CDC » Sat Jun 07, 2003 23:28

LOL

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Nov 07, 2003 19:29

alkand wrote:Let's start from "other side". I didn't find any information about Wales checkers federations, checkers tournaments played there. And what about players from there? I think Mr. Levy is checkers players and he is living in this this country? Same I can tell about Scotland. And everybody can find easy information about federations, tournaments and players from England and N.Ireland. So, I think that it was simple fake to receive more votes. Why don't invite in FMJD penguins from Arctic Circle and Antarctica next time?

So I say: "Welcome to EVERYBODY in FMJD"!
www.draffts.com will provide you with information on draughts in Wales.

Alexander Soerkov
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Post by Alexander Soerkov » Sat Nov 08, 2003 10:56

First on a theme of discussion. In Russia 89 regions, everyone has parliament, in everyone the championship will be carried out. Arguing similarly, we should give Russia 89 voices [img]images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] . In football the situation with three federations in the Great Britain has developed historically, it as a tribute to ancestors of football. There are no bases to transfer this practice in other kinds of sports.
Considering this question is wider, I want to notice, that similar dodges during May General Assembly both contradictory parties did not disdain. Thus for the sake of the certain tactical interests we hardly was have not lost itself FMJD. Whether correctly, what two (or three) the brother have a voice from Australia? It is possible to result some more examples when the country in which play some relatives has a voice. Eventually in any country it is possible to find the person knowing draughts rules.
Except for that in some countries some federations (not only in Russia) operate. Not correctly when for the sake of political benefits the voice of the most loyal is given. FMJD it should not be eliminated from the control
- behind observance of principles of sports selection and realization of the national championships.
- imposing appearance of directing bodies of this or that national federation, democratic character of their elections.
And if we have started to take federation of football for a basis I want to tell, that one year ago for infringement of these principles membership of federation of Azerbaijan in FIFA was suspended. FMJD should make the appropriate additions to the Charter. National federations small or not conducting the championship can have only the status of observers in FMJD.
And the last. In the various countries various systems of our game are cultivated. In some play only in one kind, in some in all. In my opinion it is correct, when national federation the quantity of voices proportionally to a kind of checkers in which this federation is engaged is given. First it promotes development and popularization of all recognized FMJD versions of game, second excludes influence on acceptance of decisions by the certain kind of checkers of federations which to this kind have no any relation. It is specificity of our kind of sports and necessity.
With the best regards.

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