What do we have to do?

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A.Presman
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Real name: Alexander Presman
Location: the Netherlands

What do we have to do?

Post by A.Presman » Tue May 20, 2003 23:33

Russian history knows a lot of collapses.
Therefore in Russian exists even some standard couple of question which rise on the historical breakpoints.

Who is guilty?
What do we have to do?

Don't we need to try to find answers as well?

So in this topic:
What do we have to do?

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Hanco Elenbaas
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 14:49

What do we have to do?

Post by Hanco Elenbaas » Sun Jun 01, 2003 06:56

Het is een verschrikkelijke chaos in de FMJD. Maar het is goed dat dat nu allemaal naar buiten komt.
In deze bizarre tijden komt (binnenkort) alles aan het Licht!

Image

Van Beek ken ik eigenlijk vooral als de man die steeds grootmeester Jan Bom, zijn schoonvader, begeleidde als zij hun wedstrijden moesten spelen voor damclub OG Utrecht.
Dan kon je goed zien hoeveel plezier Van Beek in dammen heeft.
Ook heeft Van Beek met Ton Sijbrands een prachtig damgeschiedenisboek in elkaar gezet over de sympathieke Jan Bom en diens generatie.

In 1999 speelde ik een seizoen met dispensatie voor Hiltex 2. We moesten een keer thuis tegen OG Utrecht. Om mijn ploeggenoten Bert Bakhuis en Hans van den Heuvel (beiden zeer fanatieke Ajax-aanhangers) te treiteren had ik mijn Feyenoordshirt aangetrokken. Natuurlijk kreeg ik daar allerlei negatieve kritiek op. Maar dat was ogenblikkelijk afgelopen toen Van Beek zijn grote liefde voor Feyenoord kenbaar maakte.
Wat later kreeg Bert Bakhuis op het dambord een verschrikkelijke aframmeling van Van Beek.
Komend seizoen speel ik waarschijnlijk weer voor Hiltex 2. En mogen we opnieuw tegen OG.

Een heel mooi Anansi/Broer Konijnverhaal van Van Beek heeft me ooit tot grote daden aangezet in het Bijlmertoernooi.
De afrikaanse dammers die ik ken zijn lovend over Van Beek.
Van FMJD-medewerkers als Johan Bastiaannet[GMI] en Paul Oudshoorn[MI] hoor je ook niets dan lof over Wouter van Beek.

Ik hoop dan ook dat Wouter van Beek zijn liefde voor het damspel zelfs nu zal blijven bewaren en dat hij zal aftreden als president van de FMJD. Ook hoop ik dat hij zijn opvolger Shovkoplias zal gaan inwerken.
Misschien kan Van Beek al zijn kennis van de afgelopen jaren meenemen naar een functie als (bijvoorbeeld) vice-president? Als hij dat zou doen zou hij zich voor mij echt een groot bestuurder en damenthousiast tonen.

Nu is hij elf jaar president geweest en al te veel is er in die tijd niet verbeterd.
Ja, de GAISF en het overkoepelend maken van de FMJD voor allerlei soorten dammen, wat natuurlijk wel het nodige heen-en-weer-gereis en ander geregel met zich mee zal hebben gebracht. Maar de financiële condities voor de topspelers zijn slechter en slechter geworden. Die 55.000 $$ die Georgiev onlangs won in zijn match tegen Tsjizjov tonen aan dat het in Oost Europa momenteel wel eens veel beter zou kunnen zijn voor topsport.
(Nederland is een klein landje met een zo af en toe wat bekrompen mentaliteit. In Rusland en vroegere satellietstaten is het een beetje groter en in veel opzichten ruimdenkender.)
En als de financiële condities voor de beste spelers verbeteren, verandert in deze door materialisme overheerste tijden ook de status van het spel. Daarmee komt er natuurlijk meer media-aandacht, respectvolle media-aandacht en dat heeft weer ledenwinst tot gevolg.

Van Beek heeft geen commercieel talent. Hij is meer een tamelijk creatieve topambtenaar, die als tweede man in een organisatie het meest tot zijn recht zou komen (zie wat een mooie pr hij voor Ton Sijbrands verzorgt in het door jou geciteerde interview).
Dus is het tijd voor Van Beek om plaats te maken als president, zeker nu de beste damspelers daar massaal om roepen.
Want bestuurders zijn er voor de spelers en nooit andersom, dat weet Van Beek ook, in tegenstelling tot de meeste nederlandse dambestuurders (Bekijk bijvoorbeeld het ijdele en mede daarom doorgaans onzinnige commentaar van ene Leen de Rooij op het spel tijdens het WK in Zwartsluis).
Van Beek is zelf jeugdkampioen van Nederland geweest en hij heeft zich in zijn jonge jaren ooit geplaatst voor de finale van het Kampioenschap van Nederland. Dat kunnen heeeel weinig dambestuurders Van Beek navertellen.
De beste spelers zijn het talentvolst en zij hebben het meeste inzicht in het spel en daarom vaak ook het meeste gevoel voor alle randvoorwaarden.

Als bestuurders de spelers voor de voeten gaan lopen, zijn zij ongeschikt voor hun functie. (Men neme het besluit om te gaan loten na de barrage van het NK 2001 in Zwartsluis.)

Het zou fantastisch zijn als Van Beek zijn gekwetste trots opzij zou kunnen zetten en zich beschikbaar zou stellen voor een wat minder belangrijke bestuursfunctie om vandaaruit Shovkoplias in te werken en Wiersma, Koifman, Gantwarg, Lelio Marcos, Tsjizjov etc. behulpzaam te zijn bij het opzetten van een veel beter functionerende FMJD.

Hopelijk is alle rancune die Van Beek op 20 mei tegen het ANP spuide over de rol van Wiersma een momentopname geweest. Toen toonde Van Beek zich een klein mannetje. Ik verwacht hem binnenkort van zijn betere kant te zien.
Maar misschien is dat wel naïef.

Vlak voor de eerste ronde van het Bijlmertoernooi in 2002 presenteerden Van Beek en Sijbrands hun mooie, dikke geschiedenisboek over Bom. Ik kocht het boek, liet Roozenburg, Sijbrands en Van Beek hun handtekeningen zetten, bladerde het door. Trof niets aan over wat me altijd, door allerlei verhalen fascineerde aan die aardige Bom: zijn oorlogsverleden. Ik stapte op Van Beek af toen hij even alleen was, zijn dozen boeken ordenend en vroeg hem of ik iets indiscreets te berde mocht brengen. Na het knikje vertelde ik hem dat ik vaak had horen zeggen dat Bom in '40-'45 een fanatieke NSB-er was en dat ik me altijd had afgevraagd of dat nu wel waar was. "Ja", zei Van Beek vriendelijk, "dat is waar, maar ik hoop van harte dat je dat onderwerp op deze receptie wilt laten rusten." Dat heb ik natuurlijk gedaan, ik had toch al geen plannen in een andere richting. En ik waardeerde Van Beek's niet om de brij heendraaien.

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Toch is het een verzwegen onderwerp, de rol van vele (top-)dammers tijdens de jaren van de tweede wereldoorlog. Piet Roozenburg, de legendarische oud-wereldkampioen, is ook jarenlang president van de FMJD geweest. Zijn filosofie in die jaren '80 was:"Mijn generatie moest vroeger naar damwedstrijden op de fiets, met een broodtrommeltje achterop, en we verdienden er niets mee. Waarom kan de hedendaagse generatie topspelers dat niet ook?"
Je begrijpt dat onder Roozenburg eveneens niet zo gek veel gedaan werd op het gebied van contacten met sponsors leggen en onderhouden.

Over zijn '40-'45 schrijft Piet Roozenburg in Dammen 85/86, juni 1993: "In de oorlogsjaren was Freek Gordijn één van de weinige dammers met wie ik in Berlijn nog wel eens een partij speelde." En in Dammen 84, april 1993 zegt Roozenburg: "Het Vrije Volk van 30 mei 1945 onder de kop 'Piet Roozenburg dood': "De jeugdige dammeester Piet Roozenburg is bij één der laatste bombardementen in Duitsland om het leven gekomen." Mijn eigen doodsbericht kwam mij begin juni 1945 onder ogen, nadat ik vanuit Bohemen -bevrijd door de Russen en na een dagenlange voetmars op eigen initiatief overgeheveld naar de Amerikaanse zone- onwaarschijnlijk snel was gerepatrieerd. Het bombardement waarvan Het Vrije Volk gewag maakt, had plaats op een stralende ochtend, begin februari 1945, toen -naar ik later vernam- zo'n 2000 bommenwerpers de buurt waar ik werkte (omgeving Wilhelmstrasse, Friedrichstrasse, Anhalter Bahnhof) in een ware ruïne hadden herschapen, waarna ik opnieuw werd gedeporteerd, nu naar Bohemen."

Wat nu gebeurt heeft wel enige samenhang met wat er in 1991 gaande was binnen die FMJD.
Het volgende maakt een beetje duidelijk hoe KNDB-bestuurders tegen de FMJD aankijken.
In het damspel, 'het officieel orgaan van de KNDB' van april 1991 staat:
"De KNDB verzet zich tegen de benoeming van de Rus Bairamov als FMJD-president (als opvolger van Roozenburg) in plaats van de voorgedragen KNDB kandidaat B. ten Haaf.
Wie daarover de dagbladen leest zou de indruk krijgen dat de KNDB wel erg halsstarrig is in het daaruit voortvloeiende conflict tussen de KNDB en de FMJD. Erg objectief was die berichtgeving echter niet." ...
"Maar is dat voor de KNDB nu zo belangrijk zodat zij zich niet kan neerleggen bij het feit dat Bairamov, in weerwil van de reglementen, toch met 7 tegen 6 stemmen tot voorzitter is gekozen?
Voor het samenspel tussen KNDB en FMJD is dat heel belangrijk. Sinds jaar en dag is de KNDB de drijvende kracht achter de FMJD. De KNDB levert de grootste financiële bijdrage, neemt het merendeel van de FMJD-toernooien op zich en zorgt voor een bedrag van zo'n f 48.000,-- per jaar aan subsidies voor het functioneren van het FMJD-bureau in Nederland en voor de kosten van het functioneren van Nederlandse vertegenwoordigers in het FMJD-bestuur.
Terecht, zo meent ook het Ministerie van WVC, met wie de KNDB en de FMJD onlangs een gesprek voerden, stelt de KNDB voorwaarden aan haar extra inbreng. WVC is alleen bereid de KNDB subsidie t.b.v. de FMJD te verlenen, als de KNDB een duidelijke bestuurlijke rol speelt en -wat minstens zo belangrijk is- een goede controle heeft op de besteding van de subsidies.
Nu de KNDB-kandidaat voor het FMJD-voorzitterschap op een wel heel navrante en beschamende wijze aan de kant is gezet ten gunste van een druk lobbyende Bairamov en ook de FMJD-penningmeester, B. van Dongen, als gevolg van de ontwikkelingen, zijn portefeuille ter beschikking heeft gesteld, kan de KNDB niet meer instaan voor een goede besteding van de WVC-subsidies."

Op 21 juni van datzelfde jaar dwong de KNDB Bairamov om af te treden en op 29 juni is de Rus, die niet gesteund werd door zijn bond, in Dordrecht uit zijn functie ontheven. "De Maastrichtenaar Bèr ten Haaf werd verzocht als waarnemend voorzitter op te treden tot aan het Congres in Toulon in september 1992." schrijft Anton Schotanus, dan voorzitter KNDB in september 1991.

Deze Ten Haaf trekt zich een paar maanden later 'wegens zeer drukke werkzaamheden' terug. De Italiaan Mazzili wordt waarnemend president.
In juni 1992 wordt Wouter van Beek door de KNDB voorgedragen.
Een half jaar later vraagt Anton Schotanus zich onder het kopje 'Het congres van de Werelddambond op 12 en 13 oktober 1992 te Toulon' in het damspel openhartig af:
"Het zal niemand verwonderen dat de KNDB-afgevaardigden Anton Schotanus en Ruud Palmer de Algemene Vergadering van de Werelddambond met enige spanning tegemoet hebben gezien. Zouden de aangesloten bonden de gang van zaken die leidde tot het aftreden van de in Groningen gekozen voorzitter Vadim Bairamov zonder morren accepteren? Zou de Nederlandse kandidaat voor het voorzitterschap, de Utrechtse cultureel antropoloog Wouter van Beek, zonder problemen benoemd worden?
Achteraf verliep de eerste dag van het Congres op rolletjes. De als opvolger van de Nederlander Bèr ten Haaf gekozen president Gaetano Mazzili verdedigde het beleid van het FMJD-bestuur met verve; niemand van de afgevaardigden had behoefte aan commentaar en binnen de kortste keren was Wouter van Beek benoemd. Niet alleen als voorzitter nam hij onmiddellijk het heft in handen. Ook als tolk vervulde hij een rol van niet te onderschatten betekenis."

Wouter bedankt (!!!) en laat ons de komende maanden, met als climax de vergadering in augustus in Stettin nog eens je beste kant zien!

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Jacques PERMAL
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Franç ais-English

Post by Jacques PERMAL » Sun Jun 01, 2003 09:32

Salut Hanco !

Pourrais-tu nous proposer une traduction en français de ton discours ?

Or in english ?

Merci, Thanks !
Information : my first priority !!

L'info en première ligne !!

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Hanco Elenbaas
Posts: 18872
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 14:49

Who is guilty?

Post by Hanco Elenbaas » Sun Jun 01, 2003 11:21

Hello Jacques!
Yes I'll try to find some time this afternoon or evening to translate it.
In English will be a lot easier for me than in French.
Actually I tried to post this message in "What do we have to do?"
But for one reason, I don't understand, it ended here.
Image
Now it seems that I want to say that Mr. van Beek is the one who is
guilty of all the trouble, but that's not what I meant.
Anyway, have a beautiful Jacques and I promise you to translate it.
A bientôt! Hanco

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Hanco Elenbaas
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 14:49

What do we have to do?

Post by Hanco Elenbaas » Mon Jun 02, 2003 00:20

Salut Jacques,

Here is the translation, as promised.


It is a terrible chaos (chienlit!) within the FMJD. But it is fine that that is revealed now.
In these bizarre times everything (shortly) will be disclosed!
Image

Actually I know Van Beek especially as the man who always accompanied
grandmaster Jan Bom, his father-in-law, to the games both had to play for their Draughts Club OG Utrecht.
At these times it was easy to see how much Van Beek loves draughts.
Also, together with Ton Sijbrands Van Beek wrote a beautiful Draughts Historybook about the sympathetic Jan Bom and his generation.

In 1999 for one year I played for the second team of Hiltex.
One time we had to play OG Utrecht. To tease my teammates Bert Bakhuis and Hans van den Heuvel (both very fanatic Ajax-supporters) I was wearing my Feyenoordshirt. Of course I received lots of negative criticism. But that was finished immediately when Van Beek made known his great love for Feyenoord.
A little later Bert Bakhuis on the draught board got a sound drubbing from Van Beek.
Next year probably I play again for the second team of Hiltex. And again we'll have the pleasure to match OG.

A very beautiful Anansi/Brer Rabbitstory from Van Beek pushed me to great deeds in the Bijlmertournament.
The African draughts players I know are praising Van Beek.
From FMJD-employees like Johan Bastiaannet(GMI) and Paul Oudshoorn(MI) one hears nothing but advertising for Wouter van Beek.

So I hope that Wouter van Beek even now will keep his love for the game of draughts and that he will resign as president from the FMJD.
I also hope that he will help his successor Shovkoplias in doin' the job.

Maybe Van Beek can bring all his knowledge, collected in recent years, to a new position like (for example) vice-president? If he would do that, to me he would show that he is a great manager and lover of draughts.

Now he has been president for eleven years and not so much has been improved.
Yes, the GAISF and the housegiving to other variants of draughts play, which of course brought lots of travelling and other arranging.
But the financial conditions for topplayers got worse and worse. That $$55,000 that Georgiev recently won in his match with Tsjizjov showed that in Eastern Europe these days there are possibly much better conditions for topsport and sponsoring it.
(The Netherlands are a very small country with now and then a somewhat narrow-minded mentality. In Russia and its former satellitestates it's a little bigger and in many ways more broad-minded.)
And if the financial conditions for our best players are improving, in these times that are dominated by materialism also the allure from our game will change. With that naturally there will be more attention from the media, respectfull attention and that will bring more members to our Draughts Clubs.

Van Beek doesn't have commercial talents. He is more a moderately creative topofficial, who as the second man in an organisation would be more helpfull (see how nice his pr was for Ton Sijbrands in an interview in Dutch journal de Volkskrant).

So it's time for Van Beek to say goodbye as the president, certainly now that the best draughtsplayers are begging him to do so.
Because managing officers are there for the players and never the other way round, Van Beek knows that unlike most Dutch draughts officials (See for example the vain and -partly because of that vanity- nonsense comments from one Leen de Rooij on the games during the Worldchampionship in Zwartsluis, fortunately only in Dutch).

Van Beek himself has been the Juniors Champion of the Netherlands and when he was young he even once qualified for the finals of the championship of the Netherlands. Not so many draughts officials equal Van Beek in this.
The best players are the most talented and they have most of the insights in the game and because of that they often have the best feeling with all the sideconditions.

When officials are obstructing the players, then they are inefficient for their positions. (Take a look at the incident after the championship of the Netherlands 2001 in Zwartsluis, when after 22 Rapid barragegames between Harm Wiersma and Hans Jansen the KNDB-officials decided to do a drawing of lots, against the will of the combattants.)

It would be great if Van Beek could forget his wounded pride and if he
would be available for some less important position in the board of the FMJD. From there he could initiate Shovkoplias and he could help Wiersma, Koifman, Gantwarg, Lelio Marcos, Tsjizjov etc in setting up a much better functioning FMJD.

Hopefully all vindictiveness that Van Beek showed in an interview on May 20th about Wiersma's role was only there for an instant and is gone now.
At that moment Van Beek showed himself a small one. I expect he'll show his better side shortly.
But maybe it's naive to think so.

Just before the first round of the Bijlmertournament 2002 Van Beek and Sijbrands did the presentation of their beautiful big historybook about Jan Bom. I bought the book, asked Roozenburg, Sijbrands and Van Beek for their signatures, turned over the pages. Found nothing about what, because of all kind of stories, always fascinated me in this kind man Bom: his warhistory.
I went to Van Beek when he was alone for a moment, ordering his boxes with Bom-books, and asked him if I was allowed to ask him something indiscrete. After his nod I told him that very often I was told that Bom during '40-'45 was a fanatic member of the Dutch National Socialist Party(NSB), which collaborated with the ruling Hitler-Germany. And I always wondered if these stories were true. "Yes", said Van Beek friendly, "that is true, but I hope with all my heart that you won't mention the subject during this reception." Of course I did so, I had no intention at all before in another direction. And I valued Van Beeks being to the point. Van Beek confirmed that Bom regretted very much the choices he made in that awful period.

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Still it is a concealed subject, the role of many (top-)draughtsplayers during the Second World War. Piet Roozenburg, the legendary former Worldchampion, and one of Jan Bom's best friends, also has been president of the FMJD in the eighties. His filosofy was: "My generation had to go to draughtsgames on a bicycle, taking with us something to eat, and earning nothing with it but honour. Why the nowadays generation of topplayers cannot operate like that?"

One can understand that during Roozenburgs days in the FMJD there also didn't happen so much concerning contacting sponsors.

About his '40-'45-years Piet Roozenburg wrote in the Ton Sijbrands magazine Dammen 85/86, june 1993: "In the years of the Second World War Freek Gordijn was one of the few draught players with whom I played a game sometimes in Berlin." And in Dammen 84, april 1993 Roozenburg says: "Het Vrije Volk" (Rotterdam newspaper) from May 30th 1945 titled 'Piet Roozenburg died!: "The young master in draughts Piet Roozenburg lost his life during one of the last bombings in Germany."
I read my own death notice early june 1945, after from Bohemia -released by the Russians and after walking for days on my own initiative transferred to the American zone- I was improbably quick repatriated. The bombardment which Het Vrije Volk mentions, found place early february 1945, when -as I was told later- about 2000 bombers had recreated the neigbourhood where I was working (surroundings Wilhelmstrasse, Friedrichstrasse, Anhalter Bahnhof) in a true ruin, after which I was transported again, now to Bohemia."

What happens in 2003 has some connection to what happened in 1991 in the FMJD.
Next story makes clear how KNDB (Royal Dutch Draughts Organisation)-officials are looking to the FMJD.
In "het damspel", official magazine of the KNDB from april 1991 there is written:
"The KNDB is resisting against the appointment of the Russian Bairamov as president of the FMJD (as successor of Roozenburg) instead of our KNDB candidate B. ten Haaf. Who reads about this matter in the newspapers could get the impression that the KNDB is very stubborn in the conflict that results from this matter between the KNDB and the FMJD. But the newspapers were not very objective."...
..."But is that so important for the KNDB that our organisation can't reconcile to the fact that Bairamov, in spite of the regulations, still was chosen president with 7 against 6 votes?
For the co-operation between KNDB and FMJD that is very important. Since year and day the KNDB is the moving force behind the FMJD. The KNDB delivers the largest financial support, organizes most of the FMJD-tournaments and takes care of about 48.000 Dutch guilders a year from subsidies for the functioning from the FMJD-office in the Netherlands and for the costs of the functioning of Dutch representatives in the FMJD-board.
Rightly, as is also the opinion of the (subsidygiving) Department of WVC (which also handled sportsaffairs in the Netherlands), with what the KNDB and the FMJD recently had a conversation, rightly the KNDB claims conditions for her extra support. WVC is only willing to give financial support to the KNDB, meant for the FMJD, when the KNDB has a clear official role and -at least as important- has good control over the spending of the subsidies.
Now that the KNDB-candidate for the presidency of the FMJD has been put aside in a painful and embarrassing way in favour of Bairamov, who was very busy with lobbying, and also the FMJD-treasurer, B. van Dongen, as a result of the developments, has withdrawn, the KNDB cannot be responsible for a careful spending of the WVC-subsidies."

On June 21st of that very year the KNDB forced Bairamov to resign and on June 29th the Russian, who was not supported by his Federation, was dismissed in Dordrecht.
"Maastricht-citizen Bèr ten Haaf was asked to operate as deputy up to the Congress in Toulon in September 1992." writes Anton Schotanus, in these days chairman of the KNDB, in September 1991

This Ten Haaf withdraws a couple of months later 'because of very busy duties'. The Italian Mazzili becomes the new deputy.

In June 1992 Wouter van Beek is nominated by the KNDB.
Half a year later Anton Schotanus is openly questioning himself in 'het damspel' under the title 'The congress from the World Draughts Federation on October 12th and 13th 1992 in Toulon':
"Nobody will be surprised that the KNDB-representatives Anton Schotanus and Ruud Palmer looked forward to the General Assembly of the FMJD with some tension. Would the connected boards accept without complaining the occurrences that lead to the resigning of Vadim Bairamov, who was chosen president in Groningen?"
"Would the Dutch candidate for the presidency, Wouter van Beek, anthropologist in Utrecht, be elected without problems?
Afterwards, the first day of the Congress went perfect. Gaetano Mazzili, successor of Dutchman Bèr ten Haaf, defended passionately the policy from the the FMJD-board; nobody from the representatives wanted to comment and within the shortest times Wouter van Beek was appointed. Not only as president he immediately took the lead. Also as an interpreter he fullfilled a position of importance."


Thank you very much Wouter(!!!) and show us your best side the coming months, with as a climax the meeting in Stettin in August!

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Jacques PERMAL
Posts: 3384
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 09:15
Location: ROUEN - NORMANDY

I learnt a lot !!!

Post by Jacques PERMAL » Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:01

Thanks to Hanco for his translation. I learnt a lot about W. Van Beek, P. Roozenburg, J. Bom and FMJD-KNDB life. You wrote a lot of anecdotes.

Perhaps, M Van Beek has ever read these lines.......
Information : my first priority !!

L'info en première ligne !!

Guest

Some questions!!!

Post by Guest » Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:59



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The questions are different:
- should Wales be accepted as an independent member of the FMJD or only as a part inside of joined British federation?
- if yes - should it get immediately voting right?
- was all the procedure around affiliation and voting of (on behalf of) Wales correct and legitime?

And last but not least - not juridical but ethical - is it alright that Mr. Levy with two disputable votes without knowledge of any ins and outs should decide in the critical moment which way FMJD will go coming 4(!) years?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello to draughts worldwide,

some general reflections.

For how is the history the G.A. ( General Assembly, all Countryes with right-vote, note it !!! ) have decided to recognize and give right-vote to Wales and England, this was decided before elections. This is law now for FMJD.
This is not a problem, is existing so ( Wales and England and Scotland ) in others sport federations.
They have so right-vote as each other federation they can vote or non vote, they can support Mr X or Mr. Y , not ethical problem !
Ethical problem ( and democracy in an Association ) is that a small part of people and Countries want to change what was decided in G.A., in the case they are out of order, this is clear.

Other problem: 2 Russian Federation, and also for this problem a new system of vote was invented !!

Other problem: is it legitime that some ? *how much* pseudo-professional players ( pseudo because we know that in fact top player are sport journalist for profession, or other ) decide the future of FMJD, the future of worldwide draughts developement.

What is remainig for not top-players ?

What for non professional players ?

*is it existing a real professionalism in draughts ? not I think *

Top player are developing draughts-checkers in Oceania for exemple?
We need also this Continent for to be recognised in IOC.


other: G.A. know only about money by words-promise, not an official letter of Ministry, of Bubka , of.... And only for this FMJD will have sure much much money and Mr. Shokoplovias *must* be elected, and democracy must be out of window?
For how much money is legitime to sell FMJD?
And this money ( if there are of course ... ) go really in FMJD pocket or go in Top players pocket? In second case, what remain for FMJD and worldwide draugts-checkers developement?

other again:
I was in S. Petersburg for Youth European Championship with italian delegation. Very "well" experience: first: 2 russian federations,
second: all tournament regulation was in russian ( english and french are also official for FMJD..... ) and was not important that not russian countries don't understand it, strange decisions from russian referees and organization, all and all russian, other united europe people ...., ah I don't know how many cockroachs in shower, in room....


What will it happen with a FMJD russian tending???


other again:

why, if there are so much much money in east ( russian ) countries as it has written in other posts, is not possible to spend this money for draughts worldwide developement? Why *must* to be a FMJD russian tending?




-1°democracy
-2°dura lex sed lex
-3° not FMJD russian tending but worldwide tending
-4°don't sell FMJD

Futures of draughts-checkers is the developement of amateur players, because the licensed players in countries are always less, and the political to give money only top player it will be die FMJD and the draughts sport movement.

Best regards,

Raoul Bubbi[/color]

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Hanco Elenbaas
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What do we have to do?

Post by Hanco Elenbaas » Mon Jun 02, 2003 13:10

Look at these pictures if you want to have a real good laugh!
http://www.warcaby.pl/warcaby/zdjecia/z ... /index.htm

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Hanco Elenbaas
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What do we have to do?

Post by Hanco Elenbaas » Mon Jun 02, 2003 22:30

[quote="Anonymous"= Raoul Bubbi]:?:

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Hello to draughts worldwide,

some general reflections.

For how is the history the G.A. ( General Assembly, all Countryes with right-vote, note it !!! ) have decided to recognize and give right-vote to Wales and England, this was decided before elections. This is law now for FMJD.
This is not a problem, is existing so ( Wales and England and Scotland ) in others sport federations.
They have so right-vote as each other federation they can vote or non vote, they can support Mr X or Mr. Y , not ethical problem !
Ethical problem ( and democracy in an Association ) is that a small part of people and Countries want to change what was decided in G.A., in the case they are out of order, this is clear.

Other problem: 2 Russian Federation, and also for this problem a new system of vote was invented !!

Other problem: is it legitime that some ? *how much* pseudo-professional players ( pseudo because we know that in fact top player are sport journalist for profession, or other ) decide the future of FMJD, the future of worldwide draughts developement.

What is remainig for not top-players ?

What for non professional players ?

*is it existing a real professionalism in draughts ? not I think *

Top player are developing draughts-checkers in Oceania for exemple?
We need also this Continent for to be recognised in IOC.


other: G.A. know only about money by words-promise, not an official
letter of Ministry, of Bubka , of.... And only for this FMJD will have sure
much much money and Mr. Shokoplovias *must* be elected, and
democracy must be out of window?
For how much money is legitime to sell FMJD?
And this money ( if there are of course ... ) go really in FMJD pocket or go in Top players pocket? In second case, what remain for FMJD and worldwide draugts-checkers developement?

other again:
I was in S. Petersburg for Youth European Championship with italian delegation. Very "well" experience: first: 2 russian federations,
second: all tournament regulation was in russian ( english and french are also official for FMJD..... ) and was not important that not russian countries don't understand it, strange decisions from russian referees and organization, all and all russian, other united europe people ...., ah I don't know how many cockroachs in shower, in room....


What will it happen with a FMJD russian tending???


other again:

why, if there are so much much money in east ( russian ) countries as it has written in other posts, is not possible to spend this money for draughts worldwide developement? Why *must* to be a FMJD russian tending?




-1°democracy
-2°dura lex sed lex
-3° not FMJD russian tending but worldwide tending
-4°don't sell FMJD

Futures of draughts-checkers is the developement of amateur players, because the licensed players in countries are always less, and the political to give money only top player it will be die FMJD and the draughts sport movement.

Best regards,

Raoul Bubbi[/color][/quote]

Hello Raoul,

Me, I was married to a Russian lady during 1994 up to 1997.
I lived with her in Amsterdam, Moscow and St. Petersburg.
I only saw a cockroach in this period when we were with friends
in Amsterdam-Bijlmer.
My (ex-)wife got into a shock, like you in St. Petersburg.

Mr. Shovkoplias (Did you read his program? You can find it here:
http://fmjd.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=112 ) has been vice-president
from the FMJD. Part of his program is to make FMJD a member of IOC.

I agree with you that Wales must have the right to vote!
I also agree that the FMJD should not be sold. But I have another question
for you: Is it not so that at the moment the FMJD is sold to the KNDB? And
is it not so that counties like Italy sold themselves to the KNDB?


I have the idea you never read the important things Mr. Lelio Marcos
from Brasil wrote to FMJD-director Johan Bastiaannet about the chaos
in the FMJD. It's important for me to make sure you got this information
before continueing the discussion. So here is his letter:

Dear Bastiaannet

I can understand your email.

But it's not so simple.

Mr. van Beek understood he was like a God. And it's not so.

He told in the Assembly that he decided who could vote.

In your email is so:

' All federations present, with the exception of Cameroon and Grenada,
received voting rights on the basis of the presently available financial data
and guarantees; the Assembly agrees. There is no demand for a vote on
the voting rights. '

Do you believe everybody is crazy ? Or fool ?

I, myself, and many other countries didn't agree about Senegal because
they didn't pay the fee. And Wales ?? Are you still defending that Wales is
a country ? Ok. But Australia when was accepted as a member didn't get
rights to vote in the same G.A. Why Wales got rights to vote ??

Why van Beek didn't accept Grenada guarantees too ?

Because he knew that Grenada, perhaps, didn't support him ?

Yes, for sure, Grenada never could support him. Because the countries in
America, most of them, never supported van Beek. I, myself, didn't agree
few years ago when some countries in a PanAmerican Federation General
Assembly in Curacao tried to create a new World Federation. I didn't
agree because FMJD must be the organization for developing our sport.

But not with van Beek using his place believing that he is God.

I asked for him for voting to decide who had rights to vote. And he just told: I decide who can vote.

Who he believes he is ? God ?

And what are you talking about Harm Wiersma ??????

He has nothing with the problems that van Beek created in the G.A.

I can understand that van Beek is using Wiersma for shoting because he is from Holland.

And many mistakes he made during G.A.

Why he didn't follow the agenda ?

Why he started voting for:

- Treasurer: Jaap Bus

- General Secretary: Rik Devroe (ratification of Section 100 decision)

- Director of Tournaments youth: Henri Macaux

- Director of Tournaments seniors: Eleonora Bubbi

- Computer draughts coordinator: Jaap Bus

In the Agenda, first was President.

Why he changed the Agenda ?

The problems with FMJD are just starting.

And the financial problems.

Why van Beek don't show clean how much he receives from Holland Government ??

It's not so much ?? Ok... then show to everybody. Why to keep it hidden ??

And the G.A. was very bad organized. In the same time that many
players that had to represent their countries were playing. Whitout
translator. Everybody could speak. From Senegal, crazy, 4 or 5 persons
were speaking, every moment. Unbelievable. If I show this G.A. here,
everybody will laugh.

Many mistakes.

I can understand why so many mistakes.

When you believe that you are like God... then everything happen...

If van Beek forgot the principles of democracy, I will be able to explain him how it works.

See you...

Lelio Marcos L. Sarcedo

BRAZIL

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What do we have to do?

Post by Hanco Elenbaas » Tue Jun 03, 2003 21:51

In the meantime I found some interesting answers, concerning what we
have to do.
The first is written by Charles C. Walker, President of the American
Checker Federation, and it's an answer to the open letter from Lelio
Markos to Bastiaannet (see above). I think there are some wise words in it.
And it gives another light to what happened and what we could do.

Thursday, May 29, 2003
Subject: Re: Important message about FMJD's General Assembly


Marcos you make some very interesting remarks.
I suspose everything is based on the eye of the beholder.
As you will recall Walter Van Beek offered to resign in 60 days but his
offer was not accepted. [This does not sound like someone playing God].
He even stated that he would not run again. This I know because I gave
a presentation asking the Federations to give him the 60 days he was
requesting. It appeared that everyone was too upset to make a sound
decision. If Walters' proposal had been accepted you would have gotten
what you wanted. Since you and the opposing Federations refused you
now must live with your decision. As far as the FMJD budget...the time
was spent debating the validity of the voting rights and the resignation of Walter.
There was no time left to discuss any business.
I am certain these matters will be covered at the next General Assembly.
Marcos this was my first FMJD meeting in several years but I was shocked
at the Mutiny atmosphere that was displayed during these proceedings.
As a suggestion in the future may I respectfully suggest that you write out
your complaints and send them in ahead of time and then have someone
that is articulate present them at the meeting.
[This needs to be someone who can control their emotions].
The opposing group made some valid points but due to the "heated"
atmosphere they were not acknowledged.
For example the proof as to why Wales should not be admitted was never
presented. It was my understanding that there were Federations on the
opposing side that had not paid there FMJD dues . This would appear to
cancel out the argument that Senegal had not paid? When I was
approached for my opinion...I stated everyone must abide by the FMJD
Statures. I still stand by that decision. In conclusion ...America is at the
FMJD table because it is time to put our differences behind and move
forward together. America is willing to do that!
My question to you...Will you join us??? Charles Walker.

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The second message I found in the French Draughts Forum Lycos
http://forums.multimania.lycos.fr/lire/dames/
where one GT in the subject "Crise à la FMJD? Révolution?" writes on
05-26-03 titled RE: Un rapport beaucoup plus précis:

"La FMJD actuelle est aux bottes de la KNDB depuis plusieurs années et
c'est une véritable chienlit depuis les mondiaux 96 dans leur organisation.
Un point positif:l'entrée à l'AGFIS en 2000.

Le nouveau quatuor comprenant Wiersma (député néerlandais?),
le jeune Israelien Koifman, joueur de 1er plan revenu après 6 ans de
break et un Ukrainien à la présidence avec le soutien financier devrait
rééquilibrer l'ensemble damiste et permettre plus d'ouverture..."

translated something like:
"Nowadays FMJD is since several years dominated by the KNDB and it's
a real chaos in their organization since the worldchampionships in 1996.
A positive aspect: the admission to the GAISF in 2000.

The new quartet consisting of Wiersma (Dutch Senator?), the young
Israeli Koifman, firstclass player, came back after a break from 6 years,
and an Ukrainian at the presidency with the supporting financier will have
to rebalance the draughts playing connection and will have to permit more
openings..."
GT

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