NNUE

Discussion about development of draughts in the time of computer and Internet.
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BertTuyt
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Re: NNUE

Post by BertTuyt » Wed Apr 14, 2021 18:57

Krzysttof, thanks for your posts.

See further below remarks/comments;
* What is your nps parameter, when doing a 26 ply search from the start position?
* 1) I solved the Language problem in the mean time, there was a value wrong in the French language file.
I changed that and here it seems to work. As i want to also improve on your other questions, i will wait till i have solved the other 2 requests.
* 2) Save Game, i will try to fix the problem. Not sure if it is difficult to find.
* 3) Pondering, I will make this option work in the next version of the Damage GUI.

I hope to have solved all your 3 points within 2 weeks.

Bert

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: NNUE

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Wed Apr 14, 2021 19:36

At the very beginning, thank you for your answer Bert. I will wait these two weeks. Here is a request for the Damage 16.0 engine. Can you make this engine in AVX2. Under the processor AMD.

BertTuyt
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Re: NNUE

Post by BertTuyt » Wed Apr 14, 2021 20:06

Krzysztof,

i will make a detection mechanism in Damage 16.0, so it will use avx2 or avx-512 when available.

Bert

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: NNUE

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Wed Apr 14, 2021 20:14

Thank you Bert.

Madeleine Birchfield
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Re: NNUE

Post by Madeleine Birchfield » Thu Apr 22, 2021 03:31

Somebody at Talkchess said that Krzysztof Grzelak's CPU does not support AVX2:

http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.p ... 90#p890509

Joost Buijs
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Re: NNUE

Post by Joost Buijs » Thu Apr 22, 2021 08:43

As far as I can tell Krzysztof has besides the i7-870 also a TR-1950X (maybe even 2), albeit slow it will run AVX2.

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: NNUE

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Thu Apr 22, 2021 09:30

I have several computers at home. Joost - I have a question. Does any AMD processor support BMI2. I use about 4 or 5 computers (including a laptop) during the tournament. The tournament is played on computers AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X. Here information about the hardware in the tournament - https://www.uwccpi2021.draughtsprograms ... ation.html

Joost Buijs
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Re: NNUE

Post by Joost Buijs » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:08

It depends, the AMD 1950X supports BMI2, but instructions like PEXT and PDEP are so slow on this processor that you can't use them for things that have to be fast.

The AMD Ryzen 5000 series supports fast BMI2, 5600X, 5800X, 5900X and 5950X. These processors weren't available for some time due to the global semiconductor shortage, now it seems most dealers in the Netherlands have them in stock.

I'm still waiting for the threadripper 5 to emerge, it will probably be announced in june, availability maybe by the end of the year.

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: NNUE

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Thu Apr 22, 2021 14:24

Joost Buijs wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:08
It depends, the AMD 1950X supports BMI2, but instructions like PEXT and PDEP are so slow on this processor that you can't use them for things that have to be fast.

The AMD Ryzen 5000 series supports fast BMI2, 5600X, 5800X, 5900X and 5950X. These processors weren't available for some time due to the global semiconductor shortage, now it seems most dealers in the Netherlands have them in stock.

I'm still waiting for the threadripper 5 to emerge, it will probably be announced in june, availability maybe by the end of the year.
And how to check that the processor supports it BMI2(AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X). Here I have another question: which is better for my processor - BMI2 or AVX2.

Joost Buijs
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Re: NNUE

Post by Joost Buijs » Thu Apr 22, 2021 15:46

You can check this with HWiNFO64, run with summary only and you will see everything your processor supports appearing in green.
The best is of course to have both BMI2 and AVX2, the AMD Ryzen 1950X has both, the problem is that the implementation is bad.
AVX2 on the AMD 1950X is twice as slow as on an Intel processor, BMI2 PEXT/PDEP is a few hundred times slower, this renders it unusable.
Currently the most attactive consumer processor for the things we are doing is the AMD 5950X (if you don't need AVX-512).

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: NNUE

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Thu Apr 22, 2021 17:14

Joost Buijs wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 15:46
You can check this with HWiNFO64, run with summary only and you will see everything your processor supports appearing in green.
The best is of course to have both BMI2 and AVX2, the AMD Ryzen 1950X has both, the problem is that the implementation is bad.
And is there an opportunity to improve implementation. I wanted to buy a processor Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX. Is he also having problems with BMI2 and AVX2.

Joost Buijs
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Re: NNUE

Post by Joost Buijs » Thu Apr 22, 2021 19:43

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 17:14
Joost Buijs wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 15:46
You can check this with HWiNFO64, run with summary only and you will see everything your processor supports appearing in green.
The best is of course to have both BMI2 and AVX2, the AMD Ryzen 1950X has both, the problem is that the implementation is bad.
And is there an opportunity to improve implementation. I wanted to buy a processor Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX. Is he also having problems with BMI2 and AVX2.
Krzysztof the 2990WX is not any better in this respect. I have a 3970X with 32 cores, the AVX2 speed is comparable to Intel but the BMI2 is still bad.

If you want to have a processor with AVX2 and BMI2 and insist on using AMD you should get one from the Ryzen 5000 series, if you want to have 32 cores I presume you have to wait for the AMD 5000 series Threadripper.

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: NNUE

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Thu Apr 22, 2021 20:06

Joost and recommend some AMD processor with 32 cores and 64 threads. So that I do not have a problem in the future with BMI2 and AVX2.

Joost Buijs
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Re: NNUE

Post by Joost Buijs » Fri Apr 23, 2021 06:41

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 20:06
Joost and recommend some AMD processor with 32 cores and 64 threads. So that I do not have a problem in the future with BMI2 and AVX2.
Then you'll have to wait for the 32 core Zen3 Threadripper that will come later this year, it's very likely that it will be called 5970X.

As alternative you can look at the AMD EPYC Milan 7543P, this will cost you an arm and a leg (3K euro incl. VAT), the main-boards for it ain't cheap either.

BertTuyt
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Re: NNUE

Post by BertTuyt » Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:17

And if you can wait even longer, most likely the ZEN 4 based Threadripper will be introduced in 2022, and according rumours it will contain avx512.

Bert

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