Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021

Discussion about development of draughts in the time of computer and Internet.
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Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Mon Sep 20, 2021 19:18

jj wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 18:55
Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 18:16
If this should happen in a real tournament, the Ares program should have a winning game.
Not in an ICGA tournament, as I said.
In this case, it doesn't matter which tournament.
jj wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 18:55
I wrote software for the DGT board that allows you to transmit games on the internet and that allows you to take back mistakes. Let me know if you are interested in this for next year's tournament.
Please see Jan if the software is suitable. I use it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-Vx-uFNddk

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Mon Sep 20, 2021 19:26

And please remember one thing - previous tournaments also had the same rules.

clp
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Re: Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021

Post by clp » Mon Sep 20, 2021 19:35

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 19:12
clp wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 19:03
What to do in case of a crash should be in the tournament regulations ideally. If not the operator handles it to its own discretion (as Krzysztof did).

Why not continue the game from the last move ? Starting the game over again is unsatisfactory in my opinion.
DGT board does not allow this.
Then force the engines to repeat the moves from the suspended game.

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Mon Sep 20, 2021 19:41

clp wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 19:35
Then force the engines to repeat the moves from the suspended game.
Sorry, but you're writing off topic.

jj
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Re: Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021

Post by jj » Mon Sep 20, 2021 19:57

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 19:18
Please see Jan if the software is suitable. I use it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-Vx-uFNddk
As far as I know that software can not handle taking back moves. My software can, as I said.

clp
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Re: Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021

Post by clp » Mon Sep 20, 2021 20:01

jj wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 17:45
What do people think, was replaying that game later a fair solution? In ICGA tournaments you are allowed to recover from a crash but here there is no rule for this. What should be the rule?
Consider for example the game Ares - Dragon in round 23. And let's assume the game is being discontinued for technical reasons. Then after that, the game should ideally continue from the position after move 65. Restarting the game is in my opinion unsatisfactory.

I cannot imagine this is "impossible".

Jelle Wiersma
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Re: Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021

Post by Jelle Wiersma » Mon Sep 20, 2021 20:35

Jelle Wiersma wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 20:48
I personally think SB is the best, nevertheless, it is clear that Damage has "gold". Congratulations to Bert, and thanks to Krzysztof for running this 34-rounds tournament!
With SB I meant Sonneborn - Berger for tie breaks (not Sjende Blyn) :)

Wieger Wesselink
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Re: Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021

Post by Wieger Wesselink » Mon Sep 20, 2021 21:16

Congratulations Bert with your amazing victory! A four point difference seems enormous to me.

And Krzysztof thanks a lot for your hard work! I find it very interesting to watch the progress of the different draughts engines.

EricvanDusseldorp
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Re: Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021

Post by EricvanDusseldorp » Tue Sep 21, 2021 05:33

clp wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 20:01
jj wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 17:45
What do people think, was replaying that game later a fair solution? In ICGA tournaments you are allowed to recover from a crash but here there is no rule for this. What should be the rule?
Consider for example the game Ares - Dragon in round 23. And let's assume the game is being discontinued for technical reasons. Then after that, the game should ideally continue from the position after move 65. Restarting the game is in my opinion unsatisfactory.

I cannot imagine this is "impossible".
I fully agree.

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:36

EricvanDusseldorp and clp there is no such thing as finishing the game from a given position. Remember about it.

clp
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Re: Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021

Post by clp » Tue Sep 21, 2021 19:18

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:36
EricvanDusseldorp and clp there is no such thing as finishing the game from a given position. Remember about it.
Krzysztof, what is reasonable is real. Remember about it.

Sidiki
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Re: Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021

Post by Sidiki » Tue Sep 21, 2021 19:22

Hi all (again :D )

Once again, thanks to Krzysztof and all the programmers that maked this happen.

The main problem this, ie the rank polemic, caused here by SB (not Sjende Blyn :D ), it's that TCEC or FIJE or FMJD players are ranked by elo points.

But here, no program are ranked, so SB, itsn't so necessary. We don't know for example the elo points of Kingsrow or Damage, Ares.....

The simple thing again would be : at the end of the tournament, the rank it's linked to number of wins, draws, lossses = number of points, if it's higer, you must get the best rank.

Friendly, Sidiki.

clp
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Re: Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021

Post by clp » Tue Sep 21, 2021 19:41

Hello Sidiki,

The tournament is a great achievement of Krzystof and a great opportunity for the development of computer draughts.

As you pointed out there are various ways to establish a final ranking.

However the official website reads:
In Poland, in the town Kórnik will be held from 01.09.2021 to 18.09.2021 tournament " The Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021 ". The tournament will be played on the system "round - robin" consisting of thirty four rounds, about the place in the tournament to decide the score Sonneborn - Berger, time for a game 15 minutes + 10 second for 75 moves - all programs are set to 15 minutes for 75 moves, an additional 10 seconds was added to make movements on the DGT Draughts E-Board. During the tournament I will use the program DraughtsArbiter Pro.
In Krzystof's mind, but not on paper, there is the idea that the greater number of wins (or losses) is a deciding tie-break factor.

My idea would be: either put this in writing on the website to avoid confusion, or adjust the final ranking to the original regulations.

Sidiki
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Re: Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021

Post by Sidiki » Tue Sep 21, 2021 23:27

clp wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 19:41
Hello Sidiki,

The tournament is a great achievement of Krzystof and a great opportunity for the development of computer draughts.

As you pointed out there are various ways to establish a final ranking.

However the official website reads:
In Poland, in the town Kórnik will be held from 01.09.2021 to 18.09.2021 tournament " The Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021 ". The tournament will be played on the system "round - robin" consisting of thirty four rounds, about the place in the tournament to decide the score Sonneborn - Berger, time for a game 15 minutes + 10 second for 75 moves - all programs are set to 15 minutes for 75 moves, an additional 10 seconds was added to make movements on the DGT Draughts E-Board. During the tournament I will use the program DraughtsArbiter Pro.
In Krzystof's mind, but not on paper, there is the idea that the greater number of wins (or losses) is a deciding tie-break factor.

My idea would be: either put this in writing on the website to avoid confusion, or adjust the final ranking to the original regulations.
Hi clp,

I understood, so Draughts Arbiter Pro don't make things as expected by Krzystof, so the tie-break algorithm perhaps don't calculated correctly.

No problem, the next time will be the good, i will if god permit and some programmers do a tournament in a couple of months, 2 perhaps, i will get my new powerfull computer in 10 days.

God bless us all and permit to this draughts community to grow up.

Friendly, Sidki.

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: Unofficial World Championship Of Computer Programs In International Draughts 2021

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Wed Sep 22, 2021 08:49

Sidiki and clp please don't write nonsense. Program DraughtsArbiter Pro calculated everything correctly and well.

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