Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Discussion about development of draughts in the time of computer and Internet.
BertTuyt
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Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Post by BertTuyt » Thu Sep 19, 2019 21:10

Krzysztof, I really need to find somewhere the time which I do not have these days.
As Damage needs to become better.

The (test) version which participated had a major drawback, which all could see, it always played 34-30 as the opening move with white, and i was changing the way outposts were handled. Unfortunately with wrong code. This was a disaster against the 4 strong programs.

Also the 4 top programs used parallel search which was not activated for Damage during the tournament, and last but not least only a 6p DB (and I used 7p).

But im sure I would not end before Kingsrow, Scan, Sjende Blyn or Maximus, most likely above Dragon, so not a main difference......

So no excuses, and no finger pointing, the other programs are better.
Damage will be back some day, but I cant promise when.....

Bert

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Thu Sep 19, 2019 21:20

I understand and thank you for the answer Bert.

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sat Sep 21, 2019 17:02

Bert, I'm sorry to ask. What is the version of Damage that won that Scan 3.0.

Damage 14.0 vs. Scan 3.0 12 wins, 7 losses, 137 draws, 2 unknowns.

BertTuyt
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Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Post by BertTuyt » Sat Sep 21, 2019 19:36

Krzysztof, i don't remember quite well, most likely it was a match with different settings for Damage and Scan?
Could be more time for Damage, more cores?
In the DXP option in the Damage GUI, I can set a flag which overrides the DXP settings, and use the settings from the GUI.
Most likely that was the case....

Bert

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sat Sep 21, 2019 20:06

Thank you for the answer Bert.

BertTuyt
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Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Post by BertTuyt » Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:05

The observation from JJ is spot-on, Sjende Blyn scored 2 points against 2-5, 3 points against 6-10 and 4 points against 11-15.
As I shared some time ago, I really believe that we are entering the phase that the top-programs only draw.
All software ingredients are there to realize this goal, and the draw black hole reason is most likely the rules of the game which make the king to strong.

As Kingsrow and Scan are now freely available, I also did a test with a 158 game match and 5 minutes time for each game (on my 6 core PC). The result 158 draws :(
Maybe in a one to one match these 2 programs are still the ones to beat, but others could come close.
Also as the tournament settings provide more time, this will even increase the size of the black hole.

So as Jaap pointed out, there might be a difference between match engine characteristics and tournament.
In a match you should not lose, and a tournament is mainly about not drawing against the weaker opponents.

Maybe you could realize this, by creating complex positions, and many pieces on the board.
To avoid the exchange, one could evaluate own pieces with a higher score.

But this requires optimization of settings, and I'm not sure this is allowed under the current tournament conditions.

Bert

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sun Sep 22, 2019 13:11

I have the impression that I have another engine Damage than you, Bert. It's a shame you can't share this version of Damage which you played with Kingsrow and Scan.

Krzysztof.

BertTuyt
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Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Post by BertTuyt » Sun Sep 22, 2019 13:17

Krzysztof, you have the same Engine, as I stopped working on the Engine in 2017 (which date has the Engine you use) and hereafter more focused on BreakThrough Draughts.

I even did not try to change the problems with the 34-30, and the Outpost and wing Lock.

Your Tournament at least motivated me to join the Forum again, but I have no time to work on Computer Draughts.

Bert

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sun Sep 22, 2019 13:27

I am very sorry for the question, Bert. As it is. I play privately in Kingsrow and Scan programs and please do not be offended but the program loses. Can you please write (for comparison) on what equipment did the match with Kingsrow and Scan. How many threads do you use and do you have options enabled "Large pages".

BertTuyt
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Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Post by BertTuyt » Sun Sep 22, 2019 13:30

Krzysztof, what I can do, trying to activate the Engine on my side.
As I changed the GUI to play Breaktrough Draughts, not sure the communication still works.

I will play a 158 game match with Damage 14.0 against Scan 3.1, 1 minute for every game.
You could do the same.

I share with you the PDN, and results, and then we can check if our results are comparable?
Would that help?

Bert

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sun Sep 22, 2019 13:39

As I changed the GUI to play Breaktrough Draughts - I don't have it. Please, if possible, please share it with the GUI with Breaktrough Draughts.

BertTuyt
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Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Post by BertTuyt » Sun Sep 22, 2019 13:44

Krzysztof, maybe there was a misunderstanding I played the match Kingsrow - Scan, and this was 158 draw.

Damage 14.0 loses against the 2!
So maybe you thought that I wrote, that Damage draws against Kingsrow and Scan, which is not the case.

Bert

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sun Sep 22, 2019 13:49

Thank you for your answer Bert. You can share the pdn file from the Kingsrow and Scan match.

BertTuyt
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Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Post by BertTuyt » Sun Sep 22, 2019 13:59

Krzysztof, ok to make sure that i didnt make a error in settings, I will start a new match between Scan and Kingsrow, with settings 1 min/game.
I will post the other settings, and share the pdn file.

Bert

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sun Sep 22, 2019 14:03

Thank you Bert.

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