AMD - Scan 3.0 - Problem

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Krzysztof Grzelak
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AMD - Scan 3.0 - Problem

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sun Jun 10, 2018 20:01

I have a question about the Scan 3.0 program and people using the AMD processor. I wanted to run Scan 3.0 under Windows 10 64 bit but there were problems. I will just add that with the cmd command. I have a request for people using the AMD processor if someone started Scan 3.0 with the cmd command. I thank you in advance for all the information.

Krzysztof.

Ed Gilbert
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Re: AMD - Scan 3.0 - Problem

Post by Ed Gilbert » Sun Jun 10, 2018 21:15

I have a question about the Scan 3.0 program and people using the AMD processor. I wanted to run Scan 3.0 under Windows 10 64 bit but there were problems. I will just add that with the cmd command. I have a request for people using the AMD processor if someone started Scan 3.0 with the cmd command. I thank you in advance for all the information.
What error message are you getting?

I read a comment by Joost Buijs on the TalkChess forum that the PEXT and PEDP instructions "are both incredible slow on AMD Zen hardware because AMD was lazy and implemented these instructions in microcode instead of logic". Kingsrow uses PEXT heavily. I guess it must run very slowly on AMD. I haven't tried it.

-- Ed

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: AMD - Scan 3.0 - Problem

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sun Jun 10, 2018 23:12

Ed Gilbert wrote:What error message are you getting?

I read a comment by Joost Buijs on the TalkChess forum that the PEXT and PEDP instructions "are both incredible slow on AMD Zen hardware because AMD was lazy and implemented these instructions in microcode instead of logic". Kingsrow uses PEXT heavily. I guess it must run very slowly on AMD. I haven't tried it.

-- Ed
At the beginning, thank you for the answer Ed. In Windows 7 64 bit, in the cmd command I wrote:

c:\Krzysztof>cd/d d:\Scan International (I have a Scan program on partition D)
d:\Scan International>cd hub
d:\Scan International\hub>java -jar hub.jar

It all works correctly.

As I enter in Windows 10 64 the same commands in cmd, the following window appears. Maybe I'm doing something badly.
Attachments
Error.jpg
Error.jpg (147.41 KiB) Viewed 2889 times

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: AMD - Scan 3.0 - Problem

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:04

Hi Ed.

I have such a request to write to you, please, where you read about that Joost Buijs on the TalkChess forum wrote about it.

Ed Gilbert
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Re: AMD - Scan 3.0 - Problem

Post by Ed Gilbert » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:32

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:I have such a request to write to you, please, where you read about that Joost Buijs on the TalkChess forum wrote about it.
http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtop ... XT#p762335

Fabien Letouzey
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Re: AMD - Scan 3.0 - Problem

Post by Fabien Letouzey » Mon Jun 11, 2018 13:05

Ed Gilbert wrote:I read a comment by Joost Buijs on the TalkChess forum that the PEXT and PEDP instructions "are both incredible slow on AMD Zen hardware because AMD was lazy and implemented these instructions in microcode instead of logic". Kingsrow uses PEXT heavily. I guess it must run very slowly on AMD. I haven't tried it.
What you're saying is true, but Scan does not use PEXT.

Fabien.

Fabien Letouzey
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Re: AMD - Scan 3.0 - Problem

Post by Fabien Letouzey » Mon Jun 11, 2018 13:12

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:As I enter in Windows 10 64 the same commands in cmd, the following window appears. Maybe I'm doing something badly.
Show me your hub.ini, and the contents of D:\Scan

It seems that "scan.exe" cannot be run, at least from that place. Try by yourself: go to D:\Scan and type "scan hub". Scan should launch but say nothing; then you type "hub" and it should display some information.

Fabien Letouzey
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Re: AMD - Scan 3.0 - Problem

Post by Fabien Letouzey » Mon Jun 11, 2018 13:28

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:As I enter in Windows 10 64 the same commands in cmd, the following window appears. Maybe I'm doing something badly.
Your screenshot suggests that you have this in hub.ini:

Code: Select all

engine-dir = D:\scan
But Scan is in a different place; you need to fix that line.

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: AMD - Scan 3.0 - Problem

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Mon Jun 11, 2018 14:03

File hub.ini.

Code: Select all

engine-name = Scan International
engine-dir = D:\scan
engine-command = scan hub
gui-square = 80
gui-font = 40
gui-oval = true
gui-sound = go_stone.wav
game-moves = 75
game-time = 3
game-inc = 0
game-ponder = true
Thank you Ed and Fabien for any help in solving the problem. As I typed it up, there is a mistake from the first post (picture).

Krzysztof.

Fabien Letouzey
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Re: AMD - Scan 3.0 - Problem

Post by Fabien Letouzey » Mon Jun 11, 2018 14:17

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:File hub.ini.

Code: Select all

engine-name = Scan International
engine-dir = D:\scan
engine-command = scan hub
gui-square = 80
gui-font = 40
gui-oval = true
gui-sound = go_stone.wav
game-moves = 75
game-time = 3
game-inc = 0
game-ponder = true
I am guessing that what you actually want to do is this:

Code: Select all

engine-dir = D:\Scan International
"engine-name" does not exist anymore and should be removed (Hub now gets the name from the engine itself). I think you got confused because of that line.

In any case, you need to set engine-dir to wherever you put Scan.exe
And it's not in D:\scan, hence the error message

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: AMD - Scan 3.0 - Problem

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Mon Jun 11, 2018 14:57

Thank you Fabien. Problem solved positively :D :D :D . I have still had Damage problem and whether Sjende Blyn will be installed under Windows 10 64bit.

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: AMD - Scan 3.0 - Problem

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Mon Jun 11, 2018 18:38

Ed Gilbert wrote:I read a comment by Joost Buijs on the TalkChess forum that the PEXT and PEDP instructions "are both incredible slow on AMD Zen hardware because AMD was lazy and implemented these instructions in microcode instead of logic". Kingsrow uses PEXT heavily. I guess it must run very slowly on AMD. I haven't tried it.

-- Ed
And how to check it Ed.

Ed Gilbert
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Re: AMD - Scan 3.0 - Problem

Post by Ed Gilbert » Mon Jun 11, 2018 19:48

And how to check it Ed.
I will email you something, but not immediately as I am busy for the next few days.

-- Ed

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: AMD - Scan 3.0 - Problem

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Wed Jun 13, 2018 13:29

Ed Gilbert wrote:I will email you something, but not immediately as I am busy for the next few days.

-- Ed
Thanks to Ed. And you do not know what Dragon uses.

Ed Gilbert
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Re: AMD - Scan 3.0 - Problem

Post by Ed Gilbert » Wed Jun 13, 2018 14:08

Thanks to Ed. And you do not know what Dragon uses.
No idea.

The issue with PEXT is only a question of speed, not about crashing. Kingsrow will detect if PEXT is available and not use it if it is not supported by the processor. If it is supported but very slow, as on AMD, it will still use it.

-- Ed

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