World Draughts Forum

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 23:06 
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Location: Rijnsburg
Dat heeft Frits dan wel heel netjes verstopt, dat sarcasme. Mocht dit toch niet zo zijn, dan moet ik mij toch aansluiten bij enkele anderen hier. Het is Peters verantwoordelijkheid om te zorgen dat hij de 50 zetten in 2 uur haalt. Bovendien is Peter volwassen genoeg om 'menselijk contact' en sport te scheiden. Op het bord moet je elkaar naar het leven staan, en aan de bar bied je elkaar een biertje aan.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 09:13 
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Bert Dollekamp wrote:
Hallo Hanco,

Na een drukke dag es even in een damforum gebladerd. Las een
belangwekkende discussie over ethiek, starring Frits met jou in een
nuttige 'moderator'rol.
Ik ben er niet zo handig in en heb er ook geen tijd voor, maar bijgaand
verslag (zie ook pagina van Klaas) is denk ik een fraaie illustratie van
de problematiek. Partij staat wel ergens op toernooibase.
Zou leuk zijn als je het even inbrengt, met mijn hartelijke groet aan allen.
het is best een punt hoor van Frits, mijn moeder heeft me hier aardig uit
gered ...

Psst. Laatste ronde speelt Hijken tegen Schiedam. Ik hoop dat ik niet hoef
in te vallen. Paar jaar geleden moest ik tegen Frits. Dat was pech met
Schwarzman en Gantwarg als buren. Dan denk je met Frits helemaal een
makkie te hebben. Ik verloor dus kansloos.

Hartelijke groet, Bert



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 15:52 
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Damrubriek 18 februari 2012: Wereldkampioen maakt het wel erg bont
Alexander Georgiew won een fraaie competitiepartij van Henk Kalk. Met zijn gambiet kreeg hij de handen op elkaar. Maar klopte zijn partijopzet wel? Het antwoord is eenduidig: totaal niet. Kalk stond huizenhoog gewonnen. Hoe? Door niets bijzonders te doen en gewoon door te spelen. Zwart lijkt oppermachtig te staan, maar moet toch 'loslaten'. Wit, die sowieso al een plusschijf heeft, breekt dan óf aan de linkerkant, óf aan de rechterkant door. Een verbluffende, principiële vondst van Kingsrow.
www.ericsdamsite.com

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 17:20 
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Do not believe the computer so much!
My toster told me that I had slight advantage after the sacrifice. Probably, it is closer to the truth than the evaluation of Kingsrow.
Of course it's a joke. I do not have a toster at all, and advantage was more than "slight".
Kingsrow is a very good program, but I do not think it is stronger than the best human player.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 20:21 
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Georgiev wrote:
Do not believe the computer so much!
My toster told me that I had slight advantage after the sacrifice. Probably, it is closer to the truth than the evaluation of Kingsrow.
Of course it's a joke. I do not have a toster at all, and advantage was more than "slight".
Kingsrow is a very good program, but I do not think it is stronger than the best human player.


Three questions (assuming you are World Champion Georgiev):
Eric gave very concrete variations. I also gave some computer-assisted analysis viewtopic.php?f=85&t=2634&start=255 Where in your opinion does black have stronger continuations?
Why would human draughts players not be weaker than strong draughts computers, when in chess the computer's supremacy is undisputed?
Would you be willing to play accept a match to determine whether humans are still equivalent or better than computers?

PS the "academic" correctness of the sacrifice is of course not related to its beauty!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:24 
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Rein Halbersma wrote:
Georgiev wrote:
Do not believe the computer so much!
My toster told me that I had slight advantage after the sacrifice. Probably, it is closer to the truth than the evaluation of Kingsrow.
Of course it's a joke. I do not have a toster at all, and advantage was more than "slight".
Kingsrow is a very good program, but I do not think it is stronger than the best human player.


Three questions (assuming you are World Champion Georgiev):
Eric gave very concrete variations. I also gave some computer-assisted analysis viewtopic.php?f=85&t=2634&start=255 Where in your opinion does black have stronger continuations?
Why would human draughts players not be weaker than strong draughts computers, when in chess the computer's supremacy is undisputed?
Would you be willing to play accept a match to determine whether humans are still equivalent or better than computers?

PS the "academic" correctness of the sacrifice is of course not related to its beauty!


There are no concrete variants in this position - too many variations. And if White will not return the piece, then 20 next moves they will have material advantage. Therefore, the computer gives such evaluation. And actually all of these positions after 20 moves can be very difficult for White.
Given analysis cannot prove anything. Moves for Black don't contain any ideas and obviously weak and not logical. And with the best moves for black, perhaps in 10-15 moves Kingsrow would give advantage for black.

Of course I would like to play a match against the computer.

In draughts, human has more chances against the computer than in chess.
In chess, concrete playing begins from the first moves, and even in these cases, the computer may give an incorrect evaluation sometimes, for instance, after positional sacrifices.
And in draughts, concrete playing often begins in the second half of the game, so there is a chance to make advantage in the first half...

But this is all only a theory. Really interesting to see how it will go in practice!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 14:13 
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Real name: Ed Gilbert
Location: Morristown, NJ USA
Georgiev wrote:
Of course I would like to play a match against the computer.

In draughts, human has more chances against the computer than in chess.
In chess, concrete playing begins from the first moves, and even in these cases, the computer may give an incorrect evaluation sometimes, for instance, after positional sacrifices.
And in draughts, concrete playing often begins in the second half of the game, so there is a chance to make advantage in the first half...

But this is all only a theory. Really interesting to see how it will go in practice!

Hi Alexander,

I am the author of kingsrow. A match between you and kingsrow would be very exciting to me. If you are serious, then let's see if we can work it out. I am willing to travel to Europe to accommodate your choice of venue. I am open to your suggestions, either here or in private email.

-- Ed


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 21:52 
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Such match is interesting for everybody!
But I think needs some Price Money! And also money for the OPENED perfomance.
Without it no reasons to play...

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 08:08 
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of course it depends which computer.... the infamous laptop of Henk Fokkink, or the entire Google cloud? :wink:

in both cases, it would be a thrilling experience!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 15:12 
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Het Parool, 25 febr 2012
Image


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 15:30 
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Real name: Martijn Rentmeester
Marino Barkel verslaat Joost Hendriksen. Mbongo staat een schijf voor tegen Fred de Koning. Alle overige partijen zijn ook nog bezig. Het ziet er goed uit voor Witte van Moort.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 16:17 
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DV VBI Huissen - Witte van Moort
-
Uitslag doorgeven Tussenstand doorgeven
Fred de Koning (1316) - Thomy Lucien Mbongo (1498) 0 - 2
Joost Hendriksen (1314) - Marino Barkel (1391) 0 - 2
Johan Krajenbrink (1491) - Andrei Tolchykau (1527) -
Guntis Valneris (1558) - Mark Podolskij (1567) 1 - 1
Pim Meurs (1518) - Alexander Schwarzman (1559) -
Geert van Aalten (1417) - Frerik Andriessen (1404) 1 - 1
Gérard Jansen (1489) - Ben Provoost (1465) 1 - 1
Peter Hoogteijling (1377) - Gil Salomé (1437) 0 - 2
Rik Keurentjes (1410) - Andrej Kalmakov (1495) -
Alexander Baliakin (1557) - Boudewijn Derkx (1442) -
3 - 9

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 16:34 
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Damclub Witte van Moort voor de 3e keer in de historie kampioen van Nederland.

met een 11-5 voorsprong in Huissen is de overwinning al binnen.

en het bleef lang onrustig...............

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 16:59 
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Vengaboy wrote:
Damclub Witte van Moort voor de 3e keer in de historie kampioen van Nederland.

met een 11-5 voorsprong in Huissen is de overwinning al binnen.

en het bleef lang onrustig...............


Gefeliciteerd Vengaboy.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 17:00 
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Hanco Elenbaas wrote:
Vengaboy wrote:
Damclub Witte van Moort voor de 3e keer in de historie kampioen van Nederland.

met een 11-5 voorsprong in Huissen is de overwinning al binnen.

en het bleef lang onrustig...............


Gefeliciteerd Vengaboy.



Dank je Hanco !

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