Distance to Win, MTC, endgame database

Discussion about development of draughts in the time of computer and Internet.
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Sidiki
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 16:28
Real name: Coulibaly Sidiki

Distance to Win, MTC, endgame database

Post by Sidiki » Fri Dec 29, 2017 20:03

Dear programmers,

the position below was showed to me by Luzimar,
7endgame position.PNG
7endgame position.PNG (28.05 KiB) Viewed 1152 times
Most stronger program don't see the win, but Kingsrow with MTC database see the win, Flits also. But with the normal 8egdb Kingsrow don't see it.
Can i Know what is the difference between a normal egdb and DTW or MTC database. DTW for Dragon and MTC for Kingsrow.
Thank.

PS: DONT TAKE TO ACCOUNT THE 2ND DIAGRAM
Sidiki--
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8endgame position.PNG
8endgame position.PNG (28.22 KiB) Viewed 1153 times

Ed Gilbert
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Real name: Ed Gilbert
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Re: Distance to Win, MTC, endgame database

Post by Ed Gilbert » Fri Dec 29, 2017 22:05

Sidiki wrote: Most stronger program don't see the win, but Kingsrow with MTC database see the win, Flits also. But with the normal 8egdb Kingsrow don't see it.
When you say "see the win", I don't think you mean "sees that the position is a black win". Kingsrow can see that this is a black win. What you mean is the the program cannot finish the game against a perfect opponent without a DTW or MTC/DTC database. The reason is that (if white to move, you didn't say) there are 42 plies to the next conversion (non-reversible move). Most programs cannot search that far ahead with so many kings on the board, so they do not know how to make progress toward the win.
Flits also
Flits cannot finish the win against an MTC db. Set flits to play black, kingsrow with MTC db to play white. You will see that flits does not know how to win.

-- Ed

Luzimar
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Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 01:35
Real name: Luzimar Jacinto Araujo

Re: Distance to Win, MTC, endgame database

Post by Luzimar » Sat Dec 30, 2017 01:23

Ed Gilbert wrote:
Sidiki wrote: Most stronger program don't see the win, but Kingsrow with MTC database see the win, Flits also. But with the normal 8egdb Kingsrow don't see it.
When you say "see the win", I don't think you mean "sees that the position is a black win". Kingsrow can see that this is a black win. What you mean is the the program cannot finish the game against a perfect opponent without a DTW or MTC/DTC database. The reason is that (if white to move, you didn't say) there are 42 plies to the next conversion (non-reversible move). Most programs cannot search that far ahead with so many kings on the board, so they do not know how to make progress toward the win.
Flits also
Flits cannot finish the win against an MTC db. Set flits to play black, kingsrow with MTC db to play white. You will see that flits does not know how to win.

-- Ed
Flits does not see the victory flits playing white is very difficult to overcome only the kingdrow wins the flits

Sidiki
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 16:28
Real name: Coulibaly Sidiki

Re: Distance to Win, MTC, endgame database

Post by Sidiki » Sat Dec 30, 2017 03:27

Luzimar wrote:
Ed Gilbert wrote:
Sidiki wrote: Most stronger program don't see the win, but Kingsrow with MTC database see the win, Flits also. But with the normal 8egdb Kingsrow don't see it.
When you say "see the win", I don't think you mean "sees that the position is a black win". Kingsrow can see that this is a black win. What you mean is the the program cannot finish the game against a perfect opponent without a DTW or MTC/DTC database. The reason is that (if white to move, you didn't say) there are 42 plies to the next conversion (non-reversible move). Most programs cannot search that far ahead with so many kings on the board, so they do not know how to make progress toward the win.
Flits also
Flits cannot finish the win against an MTC db. Set flits to play black, kingsrow with MTC db to play white. You will see that flits does not know how to win.

-- Ed
Flits does not see the victory flits playing white is very difficult to overcome only the kingdrow wins the flits
HI all,

It exactly what i want to say, that the database, dtw, mtc/dtc are important in any program that want to be more strong.
Thank for these precisions.

Sidiki

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