Internet engine matches

Discussion about development of draughts in the time of computer and Internet.
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Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 863
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sun Mar 22, 2020 00:06

Match KINGSROW - SCAN (2-move ballots)

Kingsrow 1.61 vs. Scan 3.1 2 wins, 0 losses, 156 draws, 0 unknowns

Kingsrow 1.61 x64

Opening Book = Best Moves
HashTable Size = 512 MB
DB cache Size = 30000 MB
The base ends = 8 Pieces
Threads = 8
Time = 1 Min / 75 Moves

Scan 3.1 x64

Variant = normal
Book = true
Book-ply = 4
Book-margin = 4
Threads = 8
Tt-size = 26
Bb-size = 6
Time = 1 Min / 75 Moves

Match played on a computer with the equipment.

Processor - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
Hard disc - Samsung 860 Pro SSD 1 TB
Memory of frames - 128 GB DDR4 2400
System - Windows 10 64 bit Pro
Attachments
dxpgames.pdn
Match Kingsrow - Scan
(149.96 KiB) Downloaded 22 times

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 863
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sun Apr 05, 2020 08:06

Match KINGSROW - SCAN (2-move ballots)

Kingsrow 1.61 vs. Scan 3.1 2 wins, 0 losses, 156 draws, 0 unknowns

Kingsrow 1.61 x64

Opening Book = Best Moves
HashTable Size = 512 MB
DB cache Size = 30000 MB
The base ends = 8 Pieces
Threads = 8
Time = 3 Min / 75 Moves

Scan 3.1 x64

Variant = normal
Book = true
Book-ply = 4
Book-margin = 4
Threads = 8
Tt-size = 26
Bb-size = 6
Time = 3 Min / 75 Moves

Match played on a computer with the equipment.

Processor - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
Hard disc - Samsung 860 Pro SSD 1 TB
Memory of frames - 128 GB DDR4 2400
System - Windows 10 64 bit Pro
Attachments
dxpgames.pdn
Match Kingsrow - Scan
(148.87 KiB) Downloaded 11 times

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 863
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:17

Match KINGSROW - SCAN (2-move ballots)

Kingsrow 1.61 vs. Scan 3.1 0 wins, 0 losses, 158 draws, 0 unknowns

Kingsrow 1.61 x64

Opening Book = Best Moves
HashTable Size = 512 MB
DB cache Size = 30000 MB
The base ends = 8 Pieces
Threads = 8
Time = 5 Min / 75 Moves

Scan 3.1 x64

Variant = normal
Book = true
Book-ply = 4
Book-margin = 4
Threads = 8
Tt-size = 26
Bb-size = 6
Time = 5 Min / 75 Moves

Match played on a computer with the equipment.

Processor - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
Hard disc - Samsung 860 Pro SSD 1 TB
Memory of frames - 128 GB DDR4 2400
System - Windows 10 64 bit Pro
Attachments
dxpgames.pdn
Match Kingsrow - Scan
(148.19 KiB) Downloaded 11 times

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 863
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:38

Match KINGSROW - SCAN (2-move ballots)

Kingsrow 1.61 vs. Scan 3.1 3 wins, 0 losses, 155 draws, 0 unknowns

Kingsrow 1.61 x64

Opening Book = Best Moves
HashTable Size = 512 MB
DB cache Size = 30000 MB
The base ends = 8 Pieces
Threads = 1
Time = 1 Min / 75 Moves

Scan 3.1 x64

Variant = normal
Book = true
Book-ply = 4
Book-margin = 4
Threads = 1
Tt-size = 26
Bb-size = 6
Time = 1 Min / 75 Moves

Match played on a computer with the equipment.

Processor - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
Hard disc - Samsung 860 Pro SSD 1 TB
Memory of frames - 128 GB DDR4 2400
System - Windows 10 64 bit Pro
Attachments
dxpgames.pdn
Match Kingsrow - Scan
(151.37 KiB) Downloaded 11 times

jj
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 23:33
Real name: Jan-Jaap van Horssen
Location: Zeist, Netherlands

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by jj » Sun Apr 05, 2020 18:08

Congrats to Ed for improving Kingsrow. Krzysztof, can you try with Scan setting book margin 0? I suggest 988 games, 1 minute/game, 8 threads.
Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:40
Match SJENDE BLYN - KINGSROW (2-move ballots)

Postponed to another date.
Have you set a new date for this match yet?

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 863
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sun Apr 05, 2020 18:26

jj wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 18:08
Congrats to Ed for improving Kingsrow. Krzysztof, can you try with Scan setting book margin 0? I suggest 988 games, 1 minute/game, 8 threads.
Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:40
Match SJENDE BLYN - KINGSROW (2-move ballots)

Postponed to another date.
Have you set a new date for this match yet?
I will play such a match.I will make an option book margin 0. So far, the match lasts 3 minutes and 5 minutes. As for the match, I'm not sure if it will take place, because I'm preparing for the tournament "Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2020".

jj
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 23:33
Real name: Jan-Jaap van Horssen
Location: Zeist, Netherlands

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by jj » Sun Apr 05, 2020 18:43

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 18:26
because I'm preparing for the tournament "Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2020".
Can you give the date until which programmers can send you software updates?

Ed Gilbert
Posts: 790
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 14:53
Real name: Ed Gilbert
Location: Morristown, NJ USA
Contact:

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Ed Gilbert » Sun Apr 05, 2020 18:48

IMO the best way to run these engine vs. engine matches (not Krzysztof's tournament) is with Tmgr. With one command you can run as many parallel matches as you have cores, play any number of games, get consistent time control, adjudication with an 8-piece db regardless of the egdb the engines are using, and complete summary of stats and game pdn files. For example, here is the summary of a match of over 15K games played at 75 moves/1 min. It took about 30 hours to play this match on a 16-core Xeon W-3245 @ 3.2 GHz.

Match stats Kingsrow 1.61 vs. Scan 3.1

[ 1]: 0.513 score, 986 games, 34 wins, 8 losses, 944 draws, 0 unk
[ 2]: 0.508 score, 986 games, 22 wins, 6 losses, 958 draws, 0 unk
[ 3]: 0.513 score, 986 games, 30 wins, 5 losses, 951 draws, 0 unk
[ 4]: 0.507 score, 986 games, 21 wins, 8 losses, 957 draws, 0 unk
[ 5]: 0.509 score, 986 games, 26 wins, 8 losses, 952 draws, 0 unk
[ 6]: 0.507 score, 986 games, 21 wins, 7 losses, 958 draws, 0 unk
[ 7]: 0.510 score, 986 games, 27 wins, 7 losses, 952 draws, 0 unk
[ 8]: 0.513 score, 986 games, 31 wins, 5 losses, 950 draws, 0 unk
[ 9]: 0.509 score, 986 games, 30 wins, 13 losses, 943 draws, 0 unk
[10]: 0.508 score, 986 games, 24 wins, 9 losses, 953 draws, 0 unk
[11]: 0.507 score, 986 games, 19 wins, 5 losses, 962 draws, 0 unk
[12]: 0.510 score, 986 games, 26 wins, 7 losses, 953 draws, 0 unk
[13]: 0.513 score, 986 games, 30 wins, 5 losses, 949 draws, 2 unk
[14]: 0.508 score, 986 games, 24 wins, 9 losses, 953 draws, 0 unk
[15]: 0.515 score, 986 games, 37 wins, 7 losses, 942 draws, 0 unk
[16]: 0.515 score, 986 games, 32 wins, 3 losses, 951 draws, 0 unk
total 0.510 score, 15776 games, 434 wins, 112 losses, 15228 draws, 2 unk
elo diff 7.1
LOS 1.00

Here is the match control file that was used:

[General]
start-pos-file = d:\tmgr\3move_ballots.pdn
games = 986
parallel-matches = 16
time = 60
moves = 75
#inc = 0.5
egdb-wld-path = d:\db_intl\wld_v2

[Engine]
engine-dir = d:\kr_hub
engine-command = d:\kr_hub\kr_hub
draw-count = 5
draw-pieces = 10
draw-score = 0.07
win-score = 20
set-param egdb-wld-pieces = 8
set-param egdb-wld-mem = 5500
set-param egdb-wld-path = d:\db_intl\wld_v2
set-param threads = 1
set-param tt-mem = 256
set-param tt-load = false
set-param book = true
set-param book-quality = best

[Engine]
engine-command = "\projects\scan_31\scan.exe hub"
engine-dir = \projects\scan_31
draw-count = 5
draw-pieces = 7
draw-score = 0.0
win-score = 80
set-param tt-size = 24
set-param bb-size = 6
set-param book = true
set-param book-ply = 4
set-param book-margin = 1
set-param threads = 1

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 863
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sun Apr 05, 2020 18:56

The tournament will take place on September 1, 2020. The tournament page and tournament results page are ready. This information is not yet publicly available yet. I wrote to Bert if he has time, he can make a book for his draughts engine. Jelle also probably write a new version of the program Sjende Blyn.

jj
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 23:33
Real name: Jan-Jaap van Horssen
Location: Zeist, Netherlands

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by jj » Sun Apr 05, 2020 19:08

Ed Gilbert wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 18:48
IMO the best way to run these engine vs. engine matches (not Krzysztof's tournament) is with Tmgr.
total 0.510 score, 15776 games, 434 wins, 112 losses, 15228 draws, 2 unk
elo diff 7.1
LOS 1.00
Excellent!

jj
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 23:33
Real name: Jan-Jaap van Horssen
Location: Zeist, Netherlands

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by jj » Sun Apr 05, 2020 19:09

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 18:56
The tournament will take place on September 1, 2020. The tournament page and tournament results page are ready. This information is not yet publicly available yet. I wrote to Bert if he has time, he can make a book for his draughts engine. Jelle also probably write a new version of the program Sjende Blyn.
OK thanks.

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 863
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sun Apr 05, 2020 23:17

Match KINGSROW - SCAN (2-move ballots)

Kingsrow 1.61 vs. Scan 3.1 2 wins, 0 losses, 156 draws, 0 unknowns

Kingsrow 1.61 x64

Opening Book = Best Moves
HashTable Size = 512 MB
DB cache Size = 30000 MB
The base ends = 8 Pieces
Threads = 1
Time = 3 Min / 75 Moves

Scan 3.1 x64

Variant = normal
Book = true
Book-ply = 4
Book-margin = 4
Threads = 1
Tt-size = 26
Bb-size = 6
Time = 3 Min / 75 Moves

Match played on a computer with the equipment.

Processor - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
Hard disc - Samsung 860 Pro SSD 1 TB
Memory of frames - 128 GB DDR4 2400
System - Windows 10 64 bit Pro
Attachments
dxpgames.pdn
Match Kingsrow - Scan
(152.03 KiB) Downloaded 10 times

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 863
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Mon Apr 06, 2020 07:39

Match KINGSROW - SCAN (2-move ballots)

Kingsrow 1.61 vs. Scan 3.1 0 wins, 0 losses, 158 draws, 0 unknowns

Kingsrow 1.61 x64

Opening Book = Best Moves
HashTable Size = 512 MB
DB cache Size = 30000 MB
The base ends = 8 Pieces
Threads = 1
Time = 5 Min / 75 Moves

Scan 3.1 x64

Variant = normal
Book = true
Book-ply = 4
Book-margin = 4
Threads = 1
Tt-size = 26
Bb-size = 6
Time = 5 Min / 75 Moves

Match played on a computer with the equipment.

Processor - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
Hard disc - Samsung 860 Pro SSD 1 TB
Memory of frames - 128 GB DDR4 2400
System - Windows 10 64 bit Pro
Attachments
dxpgames.pdn
Match Kingsrow - Scan
(148.68 KiB) Downloaded 109 times

Ed Gilbert
Posts: 790
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 14:53
Real name: Ed Gilbert
Location: Morristown, NJ USA
Contact:

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Ed Gilbert » Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:39

Kingsrow 1.61 vs. Scan 3.1 0 wins, 0 losses, 158 draws, 0 unknowns
Threads = 1
Time = 5 Min / 75 Moves
Here are the results of repeating this same match 80 times on a W-3245 @ 3.2 GHz, which took about 4-1/2 days:

Match stats Kingsrow 1.61 vs. Scan 3.1

[ 1]: 0.506 score, 790 games, 10 wins, 1 losses, 779 draws, 0 unk
[ 2]: 0.506 score, 790 games, 11 wins, 2 losses, 777 draws, 0 unk
[ 3]: 0.502 score, 790 games, 5 wins, 2 losses, 783 draws, 0 unk
[ 4]: 0.506 score, 790 games, 13 wins, 4 losses, 773 draws, 0 unk
[ 5]: 0.506 score, 790 games, 9 wins, 0 losses, 781 draws, 0 unk
[ 6]: 0.503 score, 790 games, 6 wins, 1 losses, 783 draws, 0 unk
[ 7]: 0.501 score, 790 games, 6 wins, 5 losses, 779 draws, 0 unk
[ 8]: 0.503 score, 790 games, 7 wins, 3 losses, 780 draws, 0 unk
[ 9]: 0.507 score, 790 games, 12 wins, 1 losses, 777 draws, 0 unk
[10]: 0.504 score, 790 games, 7 wins, 1 losses, 782 draws, 0 unk
[11]: 0.502 score, 790 games, 6 wins, 3 losses, 781 draws, 0 unk
[12]: 0.506 score, 790 games, 11 wins, 1 losses, 778 draws, 0 unk
[13]: 0.506 score, 790 games, 11 wins, 2 losses, 777 draws, 0 unk
[14]: 0.503 score, 790 games, 7 wins, 3 losses, 780 draws, 0 unk
[15]: 0.503 score, 790 games, 4 wins, 0 losses, 786 draws, 0 unk
[16]: 0.503 score, 790 games, 7 wins, 2 losses, 781 draws, 0 unk
total 0.504 score, 12640 games, 132 wins, 31 losses, 12477 draws, 0 unk
elo diff 2.8
LOS 1.00

Match control file:

[General]
start-pos-file = d:\tmgr\2move_ballots.pdn
games = 790
parallel-matches = 16
time = 300
moves = 75
#inc = 0.5
egdb-wld-path = d:\db_intl\wld_v2

[Engine]
engine-dir = d:\kr_hub
engine-command = d:\kr_hub\kr_hub
draw-count = 5
draw-pieces = 10
draw-score = 0.07
win-score = 20
set-param egdb-wld-pieces = 8
set-param egdb-wld-mem = 5500
set-param egdb-wld-path = d:\db_intl\wld_v2
set-param threads = 1
set-param tt-mem = 256
set-param tt-load = false
set-param book = true
set-param book-quality = best

[Engine]
engine-command = "\projects\scan_31\scan.exe hub"
engine-dir = \projects\scan_31
draw-count = 5
draw-pieces = 7
draw-score = 0.0
win-score = 80
set-param tt-size = 24
set-param bb-size = 6
set-param book = true
set-param book-ply = 4
set-param book-margin = 0
set-param threads = 1

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 863
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:46

Ed play through dxp. Don't play through Tmgr. You'll only see differences in results.

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