Search found 1485 matches

by BertTuyt
Wed Feb 10, 2021 16:46
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: NNUE
Replies: 117
Views: 6855

Re: NNUE

My 5 cents...
If you want to write the best program , then stick to the patterns based solution as implemented in Scan and Kingsrow.
If one want to embark on the new developments in neural networks (both SW as HW), and use draughts as a test environment, then try nnue.

Bert
by BertTuyt
Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:38
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: NNUE
Replies: 117
Views: 6855

Re: NNUE

Sidiki, I think the situation with International 10x10 Draughts is different, compared with Chess. First of all with Draughts we might be already quite close to the Draw Black-Hole, with excellent programs as Scan, and Kingsrow. So with NNUE we will most likely not surpass the current pattern based ...
by BertTuyt
Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:36
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: NNUE
Replies: 117
Views: 6855

Re: NNUE

The disadvantage of nnue, compared with the pattern based eval, is the calculation costs. I did some timings (based upon a 26 ply search, base search around 47.952 seconds) with next results: * incremental update 7.26 sec (15%) * layer 2 (256x32), 12.467 sec (26%) * layer 3 (32x32), 2.233 sec (5%) *...
by BertTuyt
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:46
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: NNUE
Replies: 117
Views: 6855

Re: NNUE

A short explanation of one of the other eval routines eval_nnue_position_increment(). As stated in a previous post, this routine does an incremental update of the 256 outputs of layer 1. This function is called after every move, and uses the previous (from) and new bitboard postion (to). It consists...
by BertTuyt
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:31
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: NNUE
Replies: 117
Views: 6855

Re: NNUE

For those interested herewith the code to calculate layer 2 (256x32) en layer 3 (32x32) Bert static inline void relu_layer_vec16_v0(const int xinput, const int xoutput, int32_t* input, int16_t* output, int32_t* bias, const int16_t* weight) { __m256i temp0; const int32_t* input_end = input + (xinput ...
by BertTuyt
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:23
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: NNUE
Replies: 117
Views: 6855

Re: NNUE

Last week(s) i focused on the study of avx2 and if it was possible to accelerate the nn layer calculations. I implemented a new approach, which increased the search speed from 4.0 mnps to 5.0 mnps. With this version i did another base test with tmgr. See results below. Match stats Scan 3.1 nnue vs. ...
by BertTuyt
Sun Jan 24, 2021 14:42
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: NNUE
Replies: 117
Views: 6855

Re: NNUE

Herewith some nnue eval details (first part). The main 3 nnue_eval functions are: eval_nnue_position_init() eval_nnue_position_increment() eval_nnue_position() The eval_nnue_position_init() should be called at the root of the search. Base function is to fill the accumulator, containing the increment...
by BertTuyt
Sat Jan 23, 2021 09:31
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: NNUE
Replies: 117
Views: 6855

Re: NNUE

I also run a somewhat larger match with tmgr (the tool developed by Ed), to get a better baseline. Match conditions Scan_31nnue vs Scan_31, played on an Intel Core i7 8700K, 2-move start positions, TC 75 moves in 1 minute, books off, 6-piece dbs, 1 search thread. [ 1]: 0.473 score, 632 games, 1 wins...
by BertTuyt
Tue Jan 19, 2021 15:15
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Kingsrow - databases
Replies: 18
Views: 954

Re: Kingsrow - databases

Rein, I assume that at least from a memory point of view the 9p would be doable-ish. My guestimate is that 256 GByte would be sufficient, and at least the Threadripper could address this. Also with Threadripper mother boards with 8 DIMM slots and 32 GByte Dimm seems not to be impossible. Last but no...
by BertTuyt
Tue Jan 19, 2021 14:34
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: NNUE
Replies: 117
Views: 6855

Re: NNUE

Rein, interesting posts. I tend to agree that in the end nn or nnue is a better abstraction for an evaluation function. However the current HW (although improving) imposes a too big nps penalty for nnue, which still favors the Scan-like patterns. Im however convinced that the balance will change in ...
by BertTuyt
Mon Jan 18, 2021 20:17
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: NNUE
Replies: 117
Views: 6855

Re: NNUE

Krzysztof, the test from Ed, and also my test made clear that Scan is still better than Scan nnue. As we only start to digging into nnue, there is room for improvement. I personally don't believe we will surpass (with all other boundary conditions the same) Scan. But at which speed we will improve t...
by BertTuyt
Mon Jan 18, 2021 18:02
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: NNUE
Replies: 117
Views: 6855

Re: NNUE

Ed, another thing.
During my test (also multi-core) the frequency was around 4.3 GHZ.
As my results were slightly better i assume that your processor was running on a somewhat lower frequency.
But at least your results are backed up by better statistics.

Bert
by BertTuyt
Mon Jan 18, 2021 17:51
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: NNUE
Replies: 117
Views: 6855

Re: NNUE

Ed, thanks for your test, now we have an accurate baseline to start from..
Think this is already an encouraging result, as we are only at the beginning of nnue.
With this elo, i assume the nnue version would already beat many other programs.
What's your 5 cents?

Bert
by BertTuyt
Mon Jan 18, 2021 13:35
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Kingsrow - databases
Replies: 18
Views: 954

Re: Kingsrow - databases

Ed, although you don't have the intention to build a 9p DB, would you have a gutfeel for the computing time needed on a 16-core machine? Would resources be sufficient, or do you expect a memory overload? The SSD most likely is no problem (as these days 4TB SSD are available). In the end I also do no...
by BertTuyt
Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:40
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: NNUE
Replies: 117
Views: 6855

Re: NNUE

From Ed I got the information that the current Scan nnue implementation does not work in hub mode.
I checked that, and he is (as usual) right.
As I mainly play DXP matches with Scan nnue, I only included the dxp option.
So I will fix this during the week, and post an update.

Bert